Can Mara be real?

[confusedlayman]

Mara is our clinging to samsara, our clinging to Five Aggregates, to kamatanha, bhavatanha, vibhavatanha , our clinging to notion of self --- unconsciously underlying latent defilements.
cmiiw

so buddha was speaking to clinging or self or Tanha when he already removed them ?

[SteRo]

It's perfectly ok to personalize one's obsessions. For some it's a useful psychological trick to be able deal with them.

[johnsmitty]

I have always thought of Mara as part of our inner darkness, the delusion, greed, hatred that we carry around.

Twice in past 20 months I have tried to develop my practice to strictest standards.

When the practice gets really intense and I am present and aware, following the 8FP scrupulously, my mind is becoming purer and purer (I can literally feel my mind getting purer because of the love and compassion I feel for strangers) there is a terrible rude interruption in my life from an unexpected direction.

Can Mara be real and external?

If there is no devil, why is there so much evil in the world?

[salayatananirodha]

Can Mara be real and external?

Only in your imagination.


.

māra is not JUST a metaphor; sometimes he is but take this for example http://obo.genaud.net/dhamma-vinaya/pts ... rn.pts.htm
it accounts moggallana's past life as a māra, and its one of many examples of a māra speaking to and interacting with the buddha or the saṅgha
could someone link the sutta in which māra comes and makes it appear there is like an earthquake while the monks are meditating?

[circuit]

so buddha was speaking to clinging or self or Tanha when he already removed them ?

what is the meaning of "... buddha was speaking to clinging...."

afaik, Buddha speak to his disciples, and in stories about his victory to overcome defilements, depicted as "Mara" and "Mara" is personification of defilements, not a real entity.

[form]

You will get same kinds of replies.

I ask this at least once in this forum before.

[form]

Mara is our clinging to samsara, our clinging to Five Aggregates, to kamatanha, bhavatanha, vibhavatanha , our clinging to notion of self --- unconsciously underlying latent defilements.
cmiiw

so buddha was speaking to clinging or self or Tanha when he already removed them ?

Why did Mara still disturb him and other Arahats after nibanna?

[Kusala]

I have always thought of Mara as part of our inner darkness, the delusion, greed, hatred that we carry around.

Twice in past 20 months I have tried to develop my practice to strictest standards.

When the practice gets really intense and I am present and aware, following the 8FP scrupulously, my mind is becoming purer and purer (I can literally feel my mind getting purer because of the love and compassion I feel for strangers) there is a terrible rude interruption in my life from an unexpected direction.

Can Mara be real and external?

Yes, Mara is real. Anyone who has developed "Abhijna"(higher knowledge) knows that Mara is real and not just a figment of one's imagination.

[form]

I have always thought of Mara as part of our inner darkness, the delusion, greed, hatred that we carry around.

Twice in past 20 months I have tried to develop my practice to strictest standards.

When the practice gets really intense and I am present and aware, following the 8FP scrupulously, my mind is becoming purer and purer (I can literally feel my mind getting purer because of the love and compassion I feel for strangers) there is a terrible rude interruption in my life from an unexpected direction.

Can Mara be real and external?

Yes, Mara is real. Anyone who has developed "Abhijna"(higher knowledge) knows that Mara is real and not just a figment of one's imagination.

Meaning no one here has higher knowledge? No offence. Cos no one here is sure. For me I only based the evidence on the records of the Buddha and others were being disturb by a being in the sutta.

[Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta]

...
Can Mara be real and external?

Mara is

• Real

• and, "Internal"

[Lucas Oliveira]

[thepea]

For those that explained it is imagination,there is no way they can explain the Mara figure that the Buddha and others encounteted n the sutta. Buddha. They are also imagining things?

Mara is the strawman(fiction), enlightenment is sovereignty(fact).
Know what you are is not imagination.

[form]

One of the chief disciple of Buddha was said in the sutta to be a relative of the current Mara. If I dun remember wrongly it was said that one of the distant previous life of the Buddha was a Mara also.

So Mara is only greed, hatred and delusion? And also internal?

Once the current Mara was described to attach to the intestine of one of his chief disciple.

Once Mara was exposed, he turned into smokes and dashed in many directions. This is special effects of the day because there is no Hollywood last time?

[johnsmitty]

Mara is our clinging to samsara, our clinging to Five Aggregates, to kamatanha, bhavatanha, vibhavatanha , our clinging to notion of self --- unconsciously underlying latent defilements.
cmiiw

so buddha was speaking to clinging or self or Tanha when he already removed them ?

Why did Mara still disturb him and other Arahats after nibanna?

Aside from that, I still think my question hits more to the heart of the matter "If there is no devil, why is there so much evil in the world?" I mean if some modern liberal Christians were saying "the devil is just a metaphor" then quoting the story of the devil appearing to Jesus to tempt him in the wilderness wouldn't convince them. I suppose they simply can't be convinced. But if they could, then meditating on "If there is no devil, why is there so much evil in the world?" is perhaps the only way, but they won't consider the question for one moment because they are too full of themselves and their fake atheist 1800s style enlightenment that they've substituted for Buddha's enlightenment.

[chownah]

so buddha was speaking to clinging or self or Tanha when he already removed them ?

Why did Mara still disturb him and other Arahats after nibanna?

Aside from that, I still think my question hits more to the heart of the matter "If there is no devil, why is there so much evil in the world?" I mean if some modern liberal Christians were saying "the devil is just a metaphor" then quoting the story of the devil appearing to Jesus to tempt him in the wilderness wouldn't convince them. I suppose they simply can't be convinced. But if they could, then meditating on "If there is no devil, why is there so much evil in the world?" is perhaps the only way, but they won't consider the question for one moment because they are too full of themselves and their fake atheist 1800s style enlightenment that they've substituted for Buddha's enlightenment.

I don't see evil in the world.
Aside from that if there is a devil in a world so full of evil then the devil should be perceived directly by many/most/all people......but the devil is not perceived even indirectly by the people I have met....even the people I have met who believe in the devil have not perceived the devil directly.....
chownah