Is Nibbana a product of Mara?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
SarathW
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Re: Is Nibbana a product of Mara?

Post by SarathW »

pegembara wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:15 am
SarathW wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:36 am
pegembara wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:11 am Isn't Nibbana the unproduced, the unconstructed, unconditioned?
Samsara is the product of Mara.

Thanks.
But aren't we craving (mental fermentation) for Nibbana?
Aren't we objectified it thinking it is a place we can go there and happily live hereafter?
When we crave, the real Nibbana is far away. What you actually get is the false Nibbana or should I say Heaven! So when you hear someone saying he/she has achieved Nibbana, you need to know whether that is false Nibbana.
Agree.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
asahi
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Re: Is Nibbana a product of Mara?

Post by asahi »

SarathW wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:11 am It is important to note that the word "Nibbana" was there before Buddha's time.
In Sri Lanka, you find tons of Arahants.
So it appears to me that there is a Nibbana taught by Mara as well.
Are you positing yourself as non buddhist ?
Unless you never learn any dhamma , however your premise is a buddhist and since you already understand the four noble truth , you want to end sufferings , the path to nibbana and nibbana itself is not something like other worldly objective to pursue .
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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Is Nibbana a product of Mara?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

pegembara wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:11 am ...
Samsara is the product of Mara.
...
:goodpost:
.


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confusedlayman
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Re: Is Nibbana a product of Mara?

Post by confusedlayman »

Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:31 am
pegembara wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:11 am ...
Samsara is the product of Mara.
...
:goodpost:
mara can affect u when u have ignorant thoughts.. so removal of those is nibbana I think so its not mara
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: Is Nibbana a product of Mara?

Post by Lucas Oliveira »

SarathW wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:30 am Is Nibbana a product of Mara?
Of course not..

reaching Nibbana is not a simple state of peace.

When the Buddha reaches Nibbana it is clear that he will investigate whether there is still any suffering.

The Buddha sees Mara, he knows what Mara can and cannot do.

When the Buddha is fully awake, he sees the whole of cosmology.

he knows it and has no doubts. He see everything.

We are not following the Buddha just because of the Faith.

Most Buddhists choose this path because of the simple logic of the Teachings.

this type of doubt is normal to happen for those who are still on the way.

doubt is one of the 5 obstacles.
"As long as my knowing and seeing how things are, was not quite purified in these twelve aspects, in these three phases of each of the four noble truths, I did not claim in the world with its gods, its Maras and high divinities, in this generation with its monks and brahmans, with its princes and men to have discovered the full Awakening that is supreme. But as soon as my knowing and seeing how things are, was quite purified in these twelve aspects, in these three phases of each of the four noble truths, then I claimed in the world with its gods, its Maras and high divinities, in this generation with its monks and brahmans, its princes and men to have discovered the full Awakening that is supreme. Knowing and seeing arose in me thus: 'My heart's deliverance is unassailable. This is the last birth. Now there is no renewal of being.'"

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .nymo.html
"Seeing thus, the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones grows disenchanted with form, disenchanted with feeling, disenchanted with perception, disenchanted with fabrications, disenchanted with consciousness. Disenchanted, he becomes dispassionate. Through dispassion, he is fully released. With full release, there is the knowledge, 'Fully released.' He discerns that 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world.'"

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
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sphairos
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Re: Is Nibbana a product of Mara?

Post by sphairos »

SarathW wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:30 am Is Nibbana a product of Mara?
I believe so, yes.
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How true are your ways?
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cappuccino
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Re: Is Nibbana a product of Mara?

Post by cappuccino »

SarathW wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:30 am Is Nibbana a product of Mara?
Mara has authority for Saṃsāra


Buddha has authority for Nirvana
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dharmacorps
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Re: Is Nibbana a product of Mara?

Post by dharmacorps »

It is more likely that your thought "Nibbana is a product of mara", Sarath, is a product of Mara himself.
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Re: Is Nibbana a product of Mara?

Post by DarrenM »

SarathW wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:30 am Is Nibbana a product of Mara?
Which one?..
“Householder, you have provided the community of monks with robes, alms food, lodgings, & medicinal requisites for the sick, but you shouldn’t rest content with the thought, ‘We have provided the community of monks with robes, alms food, lodgings, & medicinal requisites for the sick.’ So you should train yourself, ‘Let’s periodically enter & remain in seclusion & rapture.’ That’s how you should train yourself.”
AN 5.176- Rapture
SarathW
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Re: Is Nibbana a product of Mara?

Post by SarathW »

DarrenM wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:09 pm
SarathW wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:30 am Is Nibbana a product of Mara?
Which one?..
Good question.
It depends on what you understand as Nibbana.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Re: Is Nibbana a product of Mara?

Post by SteRo »

SarathW wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:27 pm
DarrenM wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:09 pm
SarathW wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:30 am Is Nibbana a product of Mara?
Which one?..
Good question.
It depends on what you understand as Nibbana.
Whatever you understand as nibbana that deviates from doctrine in word and meaning is necessarily a product of Mara. And even if the understanding complies with doctrine in word and meaning then it's only a concept which as such isn't nibbana.
Last edited by SteRo on Fri Mar 05, 2021 8:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
Exhaling अ and inhaling धीः amounts to བྷྲཱུཾ་བི་ཤྭ་བི་ཤུད་དྷེ . (This is the esoteric essence of the yoga of continuous flow which is no different from the universal flux of materiality. Therefore exoteric natural science provides vital guidelines.) अञ्जलि वागीश्वर
SarathW
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Re: Is Nibbana a product of Mara?

Post by SarathW »

SteRo wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 8:08 am
SarathW wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:27 pm
DarrenM wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:09 pm

Which one?..
Good question.
It depends on what you understand as Nibbana.
Whatever you understand as nibbana that deviates from doctrine in word and/or meaning is necessarily a product of Mara.
Agree.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Aloka
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Re: Is Nibbana a product of Mara?

Post by Aloka »

.

From the website of the London Buddhist Vihara:

Nibbana (Nirvana in Sanskrit) is not a realm of existence or heaven. It is a state attained by the complete liberation from dukka, by the complete elimination of the root cause, which is craving (tanha). A person who has attained the state of Nibbana will no longer acquire kamma that keeps the cycle of life going, hence there will no longer be rebirth.

Nibbana cannot be described in terms of our normal experiences, which are so limited. Therefore Nibbana is generally described in negative terms such as 'extinction of desire', 'extinction of hatred', 'Unconditioned' (conditions that produce cause and effect), 'Cessation' (of continuity) etc.

A person who has attained Nibbana experiences a state of supreme joy that comes from being completely free from attachment, free from hatred, free from delusions.

Nibbana can be attained in this life, not after death.

https://www.londonbuddhistvihara.org/te ... ghtenment/
and....

A fully enlightened being (an Arahant) has completely eradicated mental defilements such as anger, lust, ill will etc: such thoughts simply do not arise in him.

.
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cappuccino
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Re: Is Nibbana a product of Mara?

Post by cappuccino »

Aloka wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 8:24 am Nibbana can be attained in this life, not after death.
false
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Aloka
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Re: Is Nibbana a product of Mara?

Post by Aloka »

cappuccino wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 5:15 am
Aloka wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 8:24 am Nibbana can be attained in this life, not after death.
false
....and where is your actual evidence that the the information I posted from the website of the London Buddhist Vihara is "false"? Are you even capable of an actual discussion other than writing one word posts?

:shrug:
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