Kamma

[simsapa]

Does the Buddha say anywhere that kamma is not a physical force? Or does he imply that it isn't? Or, could we infer from his teachings that it isn't?

[dhammacoustic]

"Volition (cetana), bhikkhus, is kamma, I declare; having willed, one generates kamma by body, speech and mind."

[simsapa]

Thank you, but I'm not sure this itself is proof. Kamma in this case could just refer to mental activity. What I mean by "kamma" is the force that links our kamma and its vipaka (the kamma-vipaka principle).

[Ceisiwr]

Does the Buddha say anywhere that kamma is not a physical force? Or does he imply that it isn't? Or, could we infer from his teachings that it isn't?

The Buddha gave no such explanation, since he wasn’t interested in abstract theories.

[sphairos]

What is "a physical force"?

[simsapa]

What is "a physical force"?

Good question. The Jains, for instance, believed that kamma was a kind of particle matter that got attached to the soul. It would then be the goal of practice to rid the soul of this matter. I'm looking for clear refutation of this view.

[form]

Not directly. But he associates it with the mind. And the mind is probably the most powerful in the world.

[simsapa]

So perhaps kamma does have a physical substrate...

[Bundokji]

Good question. The Jains, for instance, believed that kamma was a kind of particle matter that got attached to the soul. It would then be the goal of practice to rid the soul of this matter. I'm looking for clear refutation of this view.

You can think of memory for example and ask the same question: what is the force that is responsible for the continuity of thought? If you are a materialist, you might interpret it as the brain having a locality and unity within time and space. For the brain to remain as such, it would be a result of reaching some kind of equilibrium with its natural environment. For example, if air pressure is completely removed, the brain, as a physical phenomena, would explode.

In general, the law of kamma would not make any sense without any physical or mental manifestations. Linking intentionality to physical and mental manifestations is a cause for being mindful, for understanding phenomena in terms of mental states, and for improving and correcting the relationship between the individual and things.

[justindesilva]

What is "a physical force"?

Good question. The Jains, for instance, believed that kamma was a kind of particle matter that got attached to the soul. It would then be the goal of practice to rid the soul of this matter. I'm looking for clear refutation of this view.

Bhava sutta explains that kamma is the field with consciousness the seed with tanha the moisture where cetana forms the environment for next ecistence.
Elsewhere it is said that there is no doer or or one who suffers in kamma.
Again another sutta (vasetta sutta) quotes kammana vattathi loko , kammana vattathi paja ...........meaning that beings and worlds are processed by kamma linking kamma as the hub of a wheel.
On reading maha and cula kamma vibhanga sutta it is explained that the rich, poverty, beauty and physical features, intelligence and dumbness are all kamma vipaka.
Hence I feel that kamma is an environment which decides on various aspeccts of lives on beings, while there are other laws as utu niyama, bija nitama, citta niyama and damma niyamma as laws on existence of beings. All are subject to pancas kanda and paticca samuppada.

[simsapa]

Bhava sutta explains that kamma is the field

What kind of field?

Hence I feel that kamma is an environment

What kind?

[simsapa]

In general, the law of kamma would not make any sense without any physical or mental manifestations. Linking intentionality to physical and mental manifestations is a cause for being mindful, for understanding phenomena in terms of mental states, and for improving and correcting the relationship between the individual and things.

Thanks, true. But what's the nature of what produces a vipaka for some kamma?

[Bundokji]

Thanks, true. But what's the nature of what produces a vipaka for some kamma?

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

[sphairos]

What is "a physical force"?

Good question. The Jains, for instance, believed that kamma was a kind of particle matter that got attached to the soul. It would then be the goal of practice to rid the soul of this matter. I'm looking for clear refutation of this view.

Yes, they thought it's a substance, but it's a "subtle" substance, "spiritual", hardly physical.

But kamma-vipāka works in arūpa reality, "non-physical", pure mind, so kamma-vipāka is not "physical".

[simsapa]

But kamma-vipāka works in arūpa reality, "non-physical", pure mind

I'm looking for evidence of this idea in the Tipitaka.