Sleeping create schism ?

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asahi
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Sleeping create schism ?

Post by asahi »

Does sleeping here literally means sleeping or something else ? If so , why it would
fall under the sway of such thoughts that would make you create a schism in the Saṅgha ?


https://suttacentral.net/sn35.235/en/sujato

You’d be better off sleeping.
Varaṁ, bhikkhave, sottaṁ.

For I say that sleep is useless, fruitless, and unconsciousness for the living. But while you’re asleep you won’t fall under the sway of such thoughts that would make you create a schism in the Saṅgha.
Sottaṁ kho panāhaṁ, bhikkhave, vañjhaṁ jīvitānaṁ vadāmi, aphalaṁ jīvitānaṁ vadāmi, momūhaṁ jīvitānaṁ vadāmi, na tveva tathārūpe vitakke vitakkeyya yathārūpānaṁ vitakkānaṁ vasaṁ gato saṅghaṁ bhindeyya.
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robertk
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Re: Sleeping create schism ?

Post by robertk »

asahi wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:16 am Does sleeping here literally means sleeping or something else ? If so , why it would
fall under the sway of such thoughts that would make you create a schism in the Saṅgha ?


https://suttacentral.net/sn35.235/en/sujato

You’d be better off sleeping.
Varaṁ, bhikkhave, sottaṁ.

For I say that sleep is useless, fruitless, and unconsciousness for the living. But while you’re asleep you won’t fall under the sway of such thoughts that would make you create a schism in the Saṅgha.
Sottaṁ kho panāhaṁ, bhikkhave, vañjhaṁ jīvitānaṁ vadāmi, aphalaṁ jīvitānaṁ vadāmi, momūhaṁ jīvitānaṁ vadāmi, na tveva tathārūpe vitakke vitakkeyya yathārūpānaṁ vitakkānaṁ vasaṁ gato saṅghaṁ bhindeyya.
But while you’re asleep you won’t fall under the sway of such thoughts that would make you create a schism in the Saṅgha.
asahi
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Re: Sleeping create schism ?

Post by asahi »

robertk wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:29 am But while you’re asleep you won’t fall under the sway of such thoughts that would make you create a schism in the Saṅgha.
Okay , but i dont get it , sleeping or not why the schism has anything to do with this ?
Or could it be sleeping here meant Not Awakened ? Just guessing .
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robertk
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Re: Sleeping create schism ?

Post by robertk »

While asleep you are not conspiring with fellow evil monks to create a schism.
And creating a schism is one of the most evil kammas possible.
.
asahi
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Re: Sleeping create schism ?

Post by asahi »

Hmmmm... :o
2600htz
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Re: Sleeping create schism ?

Post by 2600htz »

Hi:

Lol, its all about the context of the sutta.

It starts something like:

"You'd be better off mutilating your eye, instead of having eye-craving. Since its craving what leads to the animal or hell realm, not being blind".

"You'd be better off sleeping, instead of ploting against the sangha while awake".

The second part of the sutta is:

Forget the first part, dont mutilate, dont sleep all day, it is better to just let go of the craving, see the impermanent as impermanent'.

Regards.
asahi
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Re: Sleeping create schism ?

Post by asahi »

2600htz wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:53 pm Hi:

Lol, its all about the context of the sutta.

It starts something like:

"You'd be better off mutilating your eye, instead of having eye-craving. Since its craving what leads to the animal or hell realm, not being blind".

"You'd be better off sleeping, instead of ploting against the sangha while awake".

The second part of the sutta is:

Forget the first part, dont mutilate, dont sleep all day, it is better to just let go of the craving, see the impermanent as impermanent'.

Regards.
Thanks , i was sleeping actually . :mrgreen:


:anjali:
form
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Re: Sleeping create schism ?

Post by form »

Sleeping = careless attention.
Inedible
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Re: Sleeping create schism ?

Post by Inedible »

We are talking about the five actions of immediate effect. You have to have the Sangha of a living Buddha. You can't create that kind of schism any more than you can maliciously wound a living Buddha now. So now you will have to be content with killing one of your parents or killing a Bodhisattva. Good luck finding a Bodhisattva. Also, you don't have to do the deed yourself. You can ask someone to take out your parents for you and it still counts. Not that I really think you should commit an action of immediate effect.
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robertk
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Re: Sleeping create schism ?

Post by robertk »

Inedible wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:27 am We are talking about the five actions of immediate effect. You have to have the Sangha of a living Buddha. You can't create that kind of schism any more than you can maliciously wound a living Buddha now. So now you will have to be content with killing one of your parents or killing a Bodhisattva. Good luck finding a Bodhisattva. Also, you don't have to do the deed yourself. You can ask someone to take out your parents for you and it still counts. Not that I really think you should commit an action of immediate effect.
This Buddhasasana still exists and possibly evil minded monks could still bring about a new schism.
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