Do we have to learn Abhidhamma to gain Wisdom?

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SarathW
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Do we have to learn Abhidhamma to gain Wisdom?

Post by SarathW »

Do we have to learn Abhidhamma to gain Wisdom?

Please read the following excerpt from another discussion.
Robertk posted:

The bhikkhu, who is well practised in the Vinaya, arrives,
by fulfilling the precepts, at the three kinds of knowledge,
which are fully treated of therein. ·
The bhikkhu, who is well
versed in the Suttas, arrives, by his attainment of concentration,
at the six branches of super-knowledge, which are
fully treated of therein
. The bhikkhu, who is well cultivated in
the Abhidhamma, arrives, by his attainment of understanding,
at the four analyses, whi<;h are fully treated of therein.

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“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Re: Do we have to learn Abhidhamma to gain Wisdom?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
SarathW wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:28 am Do we have to learn Abhidhamma to gain Wisdom?
The Buddha didn't, so... 😏

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"Why now do you assume 'a being'? Mara, have you grasped a view?" (SN 5.10)

"Overcome the liar by truth." (Dhp 223)
SarathW
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Re: Do we have to learn Abhidhamma to gain Wisdom?

Post by SarathW »

What is Atthasalini?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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robertk
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Re: Do we have to learn Abhidhamma to gain Wisdom?

Post by robertk »

SarathW wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:56 am What is Atthasalini?
atthasa.GIF
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robertk
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Re: Do we have to learn Abhidhamma to gain Wisdom?

Post by robertk »

Because of SarathW's interest I think this may be a good topic to supply extracts from the Commentary.
THE EXPOSITOR
(A 1'THASALINI)
COMMENTARY ON THE DHAMMASANGA~i
(COMPENDIUM OF PHENOMENA)
BY
BUDDHAGHOSA
INTRODUCTORY DISCOURSE

Honour be to that Blessed One, the Arahant, the Buddha
Supreme
As on all beings his pity, rolled at will
The Sage's in~ight through all knowable things.
His heart by that world-pitying_love inspired,
When, after the Twin Mirade,1 he dwelt
At the high rnansion of the Thirty-three, 2
Throned-like the sun on Mount YugandharaOn
Par;4,ukambala, his rocky seat,
Under the tree called Paricchattaka,
He by that noble insUJht gave discourse
On the Abhidhamma to the spirits who' came,
Led by his mother,1 from the myriad worlds,
And compassed him about on every side.
I bow before the glorious Buddha's feet;
. I reverence the Church, and the Good Law.
No evil falls on him who bends the knee
To those Three Jewels. That w kick the Spirit of spirits
Unto the spirits taught, he afterwards,
The Leader, told it all in .form concise2
To Sariputta Elder, when he waited on
The Sage at Anotatta lake.3 And what
The Elder he.ard, he brmtght to plains of earth
And taught it to the brethren. And they all
Remembered it. And when the Council met,
By the wise son of the Videhi Dame4
It was again rehearsed.
Being besCYUght
By Buddhaghosa,5 bhikkhu pure in deed
And virtue, of subtle insight without taint,
What Abhidhamma from the first hath meant
I shall expound, in many figures shown
And searched at all times by the greatly wise.
The ancient Commentary thereof was sung
By the first Council, Mahakassapa
Their leader, and l,ater again by seers.
Mahinda brought it to the peerless isle,
Ceylon, and in their tongue they wrote the book.1
[2] Rejecting from that ancient scroll the speech
Of Tambapanni, I shall here inscribe
On.the palmy~~-leaf the faultless tongue
That disobeys no rule of holy script,
Illuminate the minds of those who dwell
In the .Great Minster, suffering nor taint
Nor base commixture of the heresies,
True meaning of the Abhidhamma show,
And satisfy the wise with chosen words
From expositions of the Sutta-lore.
In the Visuddhimagga I have told
the stations of religious exercise,
Right conduct, super-knowledge, insight true.
These therefore laying by, I shall declare
Precept by precept all the holy script.
Give ear obediently, while I expound
The Abhidhamma-lore,3 for it is hard
To hear such discourse as ye now may hear.
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robertk
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Re: Do we have to learn Abhidhamma to gain Wisdom?

Post by robertk »

2.
Herein what is meant by ' Abhidhamma '? That which
exceeds and is distinguished from the. Dhamma (the Suttas).
The prefix ' Abhi,' like ' Ati,' is used in the sense of preponderance
and distinction, as in such passages as, ' Severe pains
overwhelm (abhikkamanti) me, brother; and do not abate' ;4
and 'of eminent (abhikkanta) beauty.'0 Again: 'Hence when
many sunshades and flags are uplifted, the sunshade which
excels the rest in size and is of distinguished colour and form is
called atichatta'ffl,, ' the pre-eminent sunshade,' an.d the flag
which is the largest and is replete with various distinguished
paints and colours is called atidhaja, ' the pre-eminent flag.'
And when many princes and gods are gathered together, the
prince who is specially distinguished and surpasses others in
birth, property, pomp, dominion, and other attainments is
called atirajakumara, 'the prince par excellence'; and the god
who is specially distinguished and surpasses others in age,
beauty, dominion, pomp, and other attainments is called
atideva, or abhideva, 'the peerless god.' Similarly Brahmi
is called .Atibrahma, ' the supreme Brahma.' Even so this
'dhamma' is called Abhidhamma, because it excels and is
distinguished by several qualities from the other Dhamma.
In the Suttanta, the five 'aggregates' are classified partially
and not fully. In theAbhidhamma they are classified fully by
the methods of Suttanta-classification, Abhidhamma-classification,
and catechism. Similarly with the twelve sense-organs,
the eighteen elements, the Four Truths, the twenty-two controlling
faculties, and the twelvefold Causal Genesis. [3] It
is only in the Indriya Vibhanga1 that there is no Suttanta classification,
and in .. the Vibhanga on Causal Genesis2 the
method of catechism is wanting. In the Suttantas the four
Applications in Mindfulne;;s are partially classified, not fully.
But in the Abhidhamma they are classified in detail under the
three methods. And the same with the Four Supreme Efforts,
the Four Steps to Supernormal Potency, the Seven Factors of
Wisdom, the Eight-fold Path, the Four Jhanas, the Four
Infinitudes, the Five Precepts, the Four Analyses. Of these
only in the Sikkhapada V iblianga is there no Suttanta-classification.
3 In the Suttantas knowledge is partially classified, ·
not fully. And so are the Corruptions (kilesa). But in the
Abhidhamma there is a detailed classification of knowledge
after the table of contents has been thus laid down: 'Under
the unitary method the basis of knowledge is . . .'4 and so
forth. Likewise the corruptions are classified in many ways
beginning with the unitary method.1 In the Suttantas
cosmogony is partially classified, not fully; in the Abhidhamma
by the threefold method it is classified fully.2 Thus is it to
be understood that the Abhidhamma exceeds and is distinguished
from the Dhamma.

There is a consensus of opinion among teachers that the
Abhidhamma is divided into seven books, viz., Dhammasanga1'},
i, V ibha1iga, Dhiitukathii, PuggalapaMiatti, Kathiivatthu,
Y am,aka, and PaUhiina.
But the Vitanda school [ ,
The Vitandagavadi's are explained by the Ma1J,i di pa.to be the sectarians of Abhayagiri
and Jetavana of the introductory verses.-T]
say:' Why bring in Kathavatthu?

Was it not settled by Tissa, Moggali's son, two hundred and
eighteen years after the Buddha's Parinibbana ? Hence it is
[merely] the word of his disciples. Reject it.' [To whom we
say: ] t Are there then only six books in the Abhidhamma ?'
'I do not say so.' 'What doyou say then?' 'Seven books.'
' How do you get the seven ? ' . ' There is a book called
M ahadhammahadaya (in the Great Co~mentary); with that I
make the seven.' ' In the M ahiidhammahadaya there is nothing
which has not been said already in the Dhammahadaya
Vibhanga.4 And the remaining.catechetical section, which is
peculiar to your M ahadhammahadaya, is not long enough
to make up a treatise by itself. Hence it makes the seven
only with the Kathavatthu.' ' Nay, not with the Kathiivatthu.
[4] There is the Mahii-Dhiitukathii5 ~ with that I make the
seven.' 'But there is nothing new in that either.6 The
remaining texts, peculiar to it, are. not long enough to make
up a treatise. Hence the Kathavatthu makes the seventh.'
When the Supreme Buddha, who taught us the seven treatises,
came to the Kathavatthu, he began with an eight-faced inquiry
into the theory of the person (or soul), in four questions each
of two fivefold divisions1 and laid down a table of contents in
a text not quite as long as one recital, to be adopted ih all the
discourses : ' Is the person known in the sense of a real and
ultimate fact? Yes. Is the person known in the same way
as a real and ultimate fact is known? Nay, that cannot be.
Acknowledge your refutation. Is the person not known in the
sense of a real and ultimate fact ? Nay, it is not known. Is
the person unknown in the same way as any real and ultimate
fact is known? Nay, it cannot be. Acknowledge your
refutation. Is the person known everywhere in the sense of a
real and ultimate fact ? Or is it unknown ? Is it known
always in the sense of a real and ultimate fact ? Or is it
unknown ? Is it known in everything in that gense, or is it
unknown ?'2 Thus, showing the eight aspects and their
respective refutations, the table of contents has been laid
down3 by the Teacher.

Now when he laid down the table of contents he foresaw
that, two hundred and eighteen years after his death, Tissa,
Moggali's son, seated in the midst of one thousand bhikkhus;
would elaborate the Kathavatthu to the extent of the Digha
Nikaya, bringing together five hundred orthodox and five
hundred heterodox Suttas.

So Tissa, Moggali's son, expounded the. book not by his own
knowledge but according to the table of contents laid down
as well as by the method given, by the Teacher. Hence4 the
entire book became the word of the Buddha. After which
precedent ? After the f 5] M adhupitf¢ika-suttanta5 and others.6
In that Suttanta the Blessed one, after laying down heads
of a _discourse, ended thus: ' Bhikkhu., owing to such causes
the factors of prolonged r~birth beset a man.1 Here if there
be nothing to be pleased withal, proud of, or assimilated, then
it is the end of the latent bias of lust,' etc.-and then rose from
his seat and entered ·the monastery. The bhikkhus, who
received the doctrine, approached Mahakaccana and questioned
him as to the meaning of the heads laid down by the
Buddha of the Ten Powers. The Elder, not .replying direct
to the question, said by way of paying homage to the Buddha:
' Sirs, a person desirous of and seeking pith should bear in
mind this simile of pith-the Buddha is like the pith of a tree,
his disciples are like the branches _and leaves. For, Sirs, the
Buddha, who knows all knowable things, discerns all discernible
things,2 is the eye 0£ the world,3 the wisdom of the
world,4 is like the constituents of wisdom5 to the world, is like
the Ariyan Path6 to the world, is the speaker and originator
of the Four Truths, the expounder of their meaning, the giver
of the Deathless, the master of the Law, the Tathagata.'
After thus praising the Teacher he, at the repeated request of
the bhikknus, expounded in great detail the meaning of the
heads of discour.3e laid down by the Buddha and sent them
away saying: 'Sirs, if you are willing, approach the Buddha
and ask him the meaning. And you should accept what he
explains to you, so that if my explanation harmonizes with
omniscience you should take it; if not, reject it.' They
approached the Buddha and asked him. The Teacher,
without referring to any (possibly) ill-spoken words of Kaccana,
raised his neck aloft like a golden drum and filling with breath
his noble mouth, grnceful as the full-blown lotus, emitted the
Brahma voice,7and saying,' Well done, well done!' to theElder,
added: 'Bhikkhus, learned is Mahakaccana, profoundly wise
is Mahakaccana. If you had asked me the same question,
I would have answered exactly as he has done.' Thus since
the time when the Teacher gave his approval, the whole
Suttanta became the word of the Buddha. And it is the same
with the Suttas expounded by Ananda and others.
Thus in teaching the seven books, when he came to the
Kathavatthu the Buddha laid down the table of contents in
the way mentioned above. [ 6] In doing so he foresaw that two
hundred and eighteen years after his death, Tissa, Moggali's
son, seated in the midst of one thousand hhikkhus, would
elaborate the Kathavatthu as is stated above. And Tissa,
Moggali's son, expounded the book not by his own knowledge
but according to the table of contents laid down, as well as by
the method given, by the Teacher. Hence the entire book
became the word of the Buddha. Thus the Abhidhamma

consists of seven books inclusive of the Kathavatthu.
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DooDoot
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Re: Do we have to learn Abhidhamma to gain Wisdom?

Post by DooDoot »

retrofuturist wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:54 am
The Buddha didn't, so... 😏
The SarathW did, so... 😏
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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robertk
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Re: Do we have to learn Abhidhamma to gain Wisdom?

Post by robertk »

3.
Now to understand the depth of the Abhidhamma, it must be understood that there are four
oceans: the ocean of repeated births, the ocean of waters, the ocean of method, and the ocean of
knowledge. Of these,
' The unbroken line of organs, elements, And aggregates-" sa'f!l,sara " is its name.'
This is the ocean of repeated births.


Inasmuch as the ultimate start in birth of these bein s is
not apparent-whether it was a hundred [ll] or a thousand, or a hundred thousand years, or a hundred
or a thousand or a hundred thousand cosmic periods ago prior to which they were not, or whether
they were born in the time of a certain king or a certain Buddha-prior to which they were not, no
limit can be set.' The ultimate starting-point, bhikkhus, of ignorance before which it did not
exist, but after which it came into being is not revealed.' 1 +n this way this ocean'. of
repeated births is of an unknown beginning.
And there is the great ocean known as the ocean of waters.
It is eighty-four yojanas in depth. There is no measurement
of the waters as hundred, thousand, ten thousand, or hundred thousand tins. It is
incalculable and immeasurable. Verily it is only reckoned as a mass of water. This is the
ocean of waters.
Which is the ocean of method ? The three Pitakas, the word of the Buddha. For in
reflecting upon the two Pitakas, infinite rapturous joy arises in the sons of clansmen who
are faithful, abundantly believing and endowed with superior knowledge. Which are
the two 1 The Vinaya and the Abbidhamma.
Infinite rapturous joy arises in those
bhikkhus who learn the Vinaya text and reflect that it is the province of the Buddh s, and
not of oth rs, to lay down the rule for each fault or transgression according to its gravity.
Infinite rapturous joy also arises in the brethren when reflecting on implications of
things supernormal, of colours and of good conduct.1

Again the bhikkhus, who study the Abhidhamma, experi­ence infinite rapturous joy in
reflecting.· As though grouping the multitude of stars in the sky (into constellations),
the Teacher taught things mental and material, dividing them into various parts and
portions-things subtle and abstruse such as the unique2 content of aggregates, sense-organs,
elements, controlling faculties, powers, factors of wisdom, kamma and its result; and
the distinction between mind and matter.
Consider this story of such an experience. The
Elder Malia­ gatigamiyatissa [12] crossed over to the opposite. shore of India with the
intention of paying homage to the Wisdom Tree. Seated on the upper deck of the boat he looked
at the great ocean; but neither the thither nor the hither shore appeared to his vision.
There appeared only the great ocean, strewn with foam thrown off by the breaking of
the billows, and looking like a sheet of silver spread out on a bed of jasmine flowers.
He thought to himself: which is more extraordinary
the heaving of the ocean waves, or the basis of the method
of the twenty-four divisions in the Great Book 1 Then the
limits of the great ocean became apparent to him. Indeed,
he thought to himself, this ocean is limited, below by the earth,
above by the sky, on one side by the mountain encircling the_
world-system, and on the other by the seashore. But the
limits of the universal PaWhiina are not apparent. And
abundant raptu,re arose in him, as he reflected on the subtle
and abstruse Law. Arresting his rapture and increasing his .
insight even while he was seated, he threw off all the corruptions,
and being established in the topmost Fruition which is
Arahantship, he exulted in this song of esctasy:
He is1 the true disciple of the Sage
Who s~es, like a bright jewel in his hand,
Root-causes, from which all becoming is-
Lore deep and hard to know, which the Great Sage
Intuited, and all2 in order taught.
This is the ocean: of method.
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robertk
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Re: Do we have to learn Abhidhamma to gain Wisdom?

Post by robertk »

4.
Which is. the ocean of knowledge ? Omniscience. It is not possible to
distinguish the (different) oceans of repeated
births, of waters, and of method except by omniscience.


Hence omniscience is called the ocean of knowledge. . Of these
four oceans that of method is here intended; for omniscient
Buddhas penetrate it.1 And our Blessed One, seated at the
foot of the Wisdom Tree, penetrated it and thought: ' To this
has my vision pierced! lo, even to this Law have I reached,
who seeking and inquiring for more tlian a hundred thousand
ages, for over £our incalculable periods, here seated in this
cross-legged posture (as on a throne) have expelled every con.
ceivable corruption.' And he sat on the 'throne' for yet seven
days, reflecting on the Law he had penetrnted. Then after
those seven days, he rose from the throne and stood gazing at
it for seven days without blinking his eyes, thinking,' On this
throne Ihave indeed attained omniscience.' Hence this doubt
occurred to the gods: ' Surely to-day Siddhattha [13] must
still have something to accomplish, for he has not abandoned
attachment to the throne.' The Teacher, knowing their doubt,
in order to quiet it, rose immediately into the sky and dis~
played the Twin Miracle. The miracle performed at the
throne under the Wisdom Tree and that performed at the ·
assembly of his relatives and that performed at the assembly
of the citizens of Pataliputta2 were all the same as the Twin
Miracle performed at the foot of the white mango-tree in the
garden of Kai;ic;l.a. · Thus having displayed the Twin Miracle
he descended from the sky and for seven days walked to
and fro between the throne and ~he place where he had
stood.
Now not even on a single day during the interval of twentyone
days were rays emitted from the Teacher's body. During
the fourth week he sat in a jewel house in the north-west
direction. The jewel house here does not mean a house made
of the seven jewels but the place where he contemplated the
seven books. And while he contemplated the contents of thi:,
Dhammasangani, his body did not emit rays; and similarly with the contemplation· of the next five books. But when,
coming to the Great Book[the Patthana] he began to contemplate the
twenty-four universal causal relations of condition, of presentation,
and so on, his omniscience certainly found its
opportunity therein. For as the great fish Timiratipiiigala
finds room only in the great ocean eighty-four thousand
yojanas in depth, so his omniscience truly finds room only
in the Great Book. Rays of six colours-indigo, golden,
red, white, tawny, and dazzling-issued from the Teacher's .
body, as he was contemplating the subtle and abstruse Law
by his omniscience which had found such opportunity.
The indigo rays issued from his hair and the blue portions
of his eyes.
{...]

In this way,
he contemplated for a whole week.
How wide is the Law, contemplated for seven nights and
seven days ~ It is infinite and immeasurable. This, of
course, refers to the discourse as thought out in the mind.
And it should not be said that the Teacher was unable to
finish preaching in a hundred or a thousand or ten thousand
years the Law mentally worked out in a week. For subse
quently the Tathagata, seated in the midst of the gods from the ten thousand world-systems, at
the Pa1;i<Jukambala stone at the foot of the Paricchattaka 't ree in Tavati sa, making his
moth_er his chief witness, taught th Law, passing from onr. theme to another1 in a hundred,
a th '."',.isand, and a hundred thousand divisions. And infinite and immeasurable was the
discourse, which went on ceaselessly for three mont,hs with the velocity of a wat erfall, or
streams of water issuing from water­ pots turned mouth downwards. For a speech of the Buddha
when thanking his host for ent ertainm ent , if elaborated a little, may reach the length
of a Digha or Majjhima discourse. And a discourse given after a meal to the host of assembled
people reaches the length of a discourse in the two great Nikayas, Sarp,yutta and
Anguttara. Why should it b so ? Because the Buddhas are but slightly occupied
with the business of maintaining life, the. lips close well, the mouth opens lightly,2 the
tongue is soft, the voice is sweet, the deli­ very of words is quick.3 Hence the Law,
preached in such a short time, is of the length stat ed ;4 when it was preached for three
months it must have been infinite and immeasurable.
The Elder Ananda was indeed of wide experience, a student of the Three Pitakas, and could learn,
recite and preach, as he stood, one thousand five hundred stanzas or sixty thousand feet, as
easily as though he were gathering creepers and flowers. That was the Eider's single course of
exposition. None but the Buddha was able to teach, or attain the distinction of
teaching this Elder the actual text, word by word. Even a disciple of such surpassing
mindfulness, intelligence [16] and fortitude would not be able to finish learning in a
thousand years the sermons preached by the Teacher in three months in the way mentioned
above5.

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robertk
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Re: Do we have to learn Abhidhamma to gain Wisdom?

Post by robertk »

Sariputta, generalissimo of the
Law, went there, se,ved the Supreme Buddha, and sat aside.
Then to him the Teacher gave the method saying,' Sariputta,
so much doctrine has been shown.' Thus the giving of the
method was to the chief disciple, who was endowed with
analytical knowledge, as though the Buddha stood on the
edge of the shore and pointed out the ocean with his open hand.
To the Elder also the doctrine taught by the Blessed One in
hundreds and thousands of methods became very clear.

Now Sariputta,having Iearned the law taught(bytheTeacher) preached it to five hundred bhikkhus,
his own pupils. The following is their connection with the past. [17] They, so
it is said, were born as bats in the time of the Buddha Kassapa. Hanging from (the
roof of) a cave, they heard the voiceof t o bhikkhus reciting the Abhidhammaandgrasped a
general idea that it was the Law, being unable to distinguish the good from the bad. They
passed away with only the general idea suggested by the voice and were reborn in the
world of gods. They dwelt there during a whole interval between the death of one
Buddha and the appearance of the next, and in the time of this Buddha were reborn aa
men. Being convinc ed by the Twin Miracle, they renounced the world in the presence of the
Elder who, having learnt the Law taught by the Teacher, preached it to t hem. Their
acquire­ ment of the seven books was simultaneous with the conclusion of the Abhidhamma
teaching of the Buddha.
The textual order of the Abhidh amma originated with Sariputta; the numerical
series in the Great Book was also determined by him. In this way the Elder, without
spoiling the unique doctrine, laid down the numerical series in order to make i.t easy to
learn, remember, study and teach the Law. Such being the case, was the Elder the very first to
understand the Abhidhamma 1 Nay, it was the Supreme Buddha who first und0 erst ood the
Abhidhamma. For he, seated on the throne under the Wisdom Tree, penetrated it and became
the Buddha and, while seated for seven days in one position on the throne, uttered this song of
ecstasy:
Lo when appear true doctrines to the saint Zealous and thoughtful, all his doubts dissolve;
He knows that all Becoming is through Cause.
Lo when appear true doctrines to the saint Zealous and thoughtful, all his doubts dissolve ;
He knows the demolition of all Cause.
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Re: Do we have to learn Abhidhamma to gain Wisdom?

Post by robertk »

And in the three Pitakas, the threefold training, the threefold
riddance and the fourfold profundity are to be understood:
. morality treated specially in the Vinaya-Pitaka is the unique
training in virtue; cons.ciQusness treated specially in the
Suttanta-Pitaka is the· unique training in higher mental
training; philosophy treated specially in the AbhidhammaPitaka
is the unique training in high~r or metap'o.ysical understanding.
In the Vinaya-Pitaka [22] the riddance of transgression
due to the corruptions is meant, because morality is
opposed to transgressions; in the Suttanta-Pi~aka the riddance
of the tyranny of the corruptions is meant, because _ concentration
of thought is inimical to such tyranny; in the
Abhidhamma-Pitaka the riddance -of latent bias is meant
because understanding is opposed to it.
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robertk
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Re: Do we have to learn Abhidhamma to gain Wisdom?

Post by robertk »

p. 38- a monk doubted the Abhidhamma
Furthermore he should be told, ' 0 wise one, this Abhidhamma
. is the province · of the Buddhas, not of others; the descent of
the Buddhas, their birth, their attainment of perfect wisdom,
their turning of the Wheel of the Law, [30] their performance
of the Twin Miracle, their visit to the devas,2 their preaching
in the deva-world, and their descent therefrom are all manifest.
It would be unreasonable to steal the Treasure-elephant, or
horse of the universal Monarch and yoke it to a cart and drive
about, or the Treasure-Wheel and fix it to a hay cart and drive
about, or to use the Treasure-jewel capable of shedding light
to the distance of a yojana by putting it in a cotton basket
-and why? Because they are royal property. Even so
Abhidhamma is not the province of others; it is the province
of the Buddhas only. · Such a discourse as the Abhidhamma
can be taught by them only; for their descent is manifest
... likewise their return from the deva-world. There is,
0 wise one, no need for an introduction to Abhidhamma.'
When this is so stated, the heterodox opponent would be
unable to adduce an illustration in support of his cause.
'fhe Elder Tissabhiiti, resident at the Central Park, wishing
to show that the place of the Great Enlightenment3 is an
introduction to Abhidhamma, quoted the Pqdesaviharasutta
-' Bhikkhus, by whatever mode of life I lived after I first
attained Buddhahood, I have [these two weeks] lived by that
mode of living.'4 This he expanded: There are ten positions:
of the aggregates, the field of sense, the elements, the Truths,
-the controlling powers, the causal signs, applications of mindfulness,
jhana, mind, and states. Of these the Teacher at
the foot of the great Wisdom Tree intuited the five aggre- .
gates fully; for three months he lived only by way of the
aggregate of feeling.1 He intuited the twelve sense-organs
and the eighteen elements fully; for three months he lived only,
by way of feeling, in tp.e field and in the element of mental
presentations. He intuited the four Truths fully; for three
months he lived only by way of feeling in the Truth of Ill. He
intuited the twenty-two controlling faculties fully; for three
months he lived only by way of the five emotional indriyas:2
He fully intuited the. chain3 of the causal genesis; for three
months he lived by way o; feeling with touch as its cause. He
intuited the four applications in mindfulness fully; for three
months he lived only by way of feeling to which mindfulness
was intensely applied. [31] He intuited the four Jhanas fully;
for three months he lived only by way of feeling among the
factors of Jhana. He intuited mind fully; for three months
he lived by way of feeling mind only. He intuited (other)
states fully; for three months he lived only by way of (one
or other of) the triplet of feeling.4
Thus the Elder set forth
an introduction to Abhidhamma by means of the Padesaviharasutta.


The Elder Sumanadeva, resident in a village, while translating
the Scriptures5 at the base of the Brazen Palace, thought:
'This heterodox believer, who does not know the introduction
(nidana) to Abhidhamma, is just like one crying (helpless)
with uplifted arms in the forest, or like one who has filed a
lawsuit without witness.'6 And in order to show the introduction
he said,' At one time the Blessed One lived among thegods on the Pandugukambala rock at the foot of the Paric-:
chattaka tree in Tavati~sa. Then the Blessed One taught
Abhidhamma to the Tavati~sa gods thus: ' moral, immoral,
and unmoral states of consciousness,' etc.
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Eko Care
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Re: Do we have to learn Abhidhamma to gain Wisdom?

Post by Eko Care »

What will happen in the case,
some one considers Abhidhamma as a source of Wisdom,
yet he doesn't accept it as the Blessed One's word ?
robertk wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:22 pm p. 38- a monk doubted the Abhidhamma
Dhammanando wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:26 pm
Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:57 am A rose by any other name would still be a rose.
However, any other flower in the name of rose would not become a rose.
Until people decided that it had. Then 'rose' would simply have come to denote a different referent.

Adhammasammataṃ kho pana, vāseṭṭha, tena samayena hoti, tadetarahi dhammasammataṃ.

“What at that time, Vāseṭṭha, was agreed to be adhamma, is now agreed to be dhamma.”
(Aggañña Sutta)
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=38660
If my memory is correct, I have read somewhere in Atthasalini or Samantapasadika,
such a monk needs to be first threatened and secondly expelled from the Sangha (ukkhepaniya kamma) if he failed to change the view.
  • Is this for the monk who say/believe that "Abhidhamma is Dhamma but not by the Blessed One"
  • OR for the monk who say/believe that "Abhidhamma is not fully Dhamma"
________________________________________________________________________________________
Is this still practiced by strict Vinaya Sangha generally?

I know one group of Sangha do. (at least informally)
Do you think you know better than the ancient Sangha ?
classicaltheravada.wordpress.com
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Dhammanando
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Re: Do we have to learn Abhidhamma to gain Wisdom?

Post by Dhammanando »

Eko Care wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:11 pm
If my memory is correct, I have read somewhere in Atthasalini or Samantapasadika, such a monk needs to be first threatened and secondly expelled from the Sangha (ukkhepaniya kamma) if he failed to change the view.
It's in the Atthasālinī, but what the author deems actionable (i.e., by ukkhepanīyakamma or tajjanīyakamma) is not entertaining doubts about the provenance or the contents of the Abhidhamma, but rather, for a bhikkhu (presumably an abbot) to forbid the teaching of it.
Eko Care wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:11 pm
  • Is this for the monk who say/believe that "Abhidhamma is Dhamma but not by the Blessed One"
  • OR for the monk who say/believe that "Abhidhamma is not fully Dhamma"
No, unless a bhikkhu in a position of authority were to insist that these things be taught and were to forbid the teaching of the Theravāda's official standpoint on the Abhidhamma's provenance and status.
Eko Care wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:11 pm Is this still practiced by strict Vinaya Sangha generally?
I haven't heard of Buddhaghosa's recommendation being carried out in Myanmar or Thailand. In the former I doubt any abbot would wish (or even dare) to prohibit the teaching of Abhidhamma, while in the latter abbots aren't in the habit of prohibiting the teaching of anything.
Anabhirati kho, āvuso, imasmiṃ dhammavinaye dukkhā, abhirati sukhā.

“To not delight in this dhammavinaya, friend, is painful; to delight in it is bliss.”
(Sukhasutta, AN 10:66)
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Eko Care
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Re: Do we have to learn Abhidhamma to gain Wisdom?

Post by Eko Care »

Dhammanando wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:03 pm It's in the Atthasālinī, but what the author deems actionable (i.e., by ukkhepanīyakamma or tajjanīyakamma) is not entertaining doubts about the provenance or the contents of the Abhidhamma, but rather, for a bhikkhu (presumably an abbot) to forbid the teaching of it.

... unless a bhikkhu in a position of authority were to insist that these things be taught and were to forbid the teaching of the Theravāda's official standpoint on the Abhidhamma's provenance and status.

... In the former I doubt any abbot would wish (or even dare) to prohibit the teaching of Abhidhamma, while in the latter abbots aren't in the habit of prohibiting the teaching of anything.
Many merits bhante for your explanation.
I asked because I listened it in a famous Patimokka-teaching recording as well.
vandami.
Do you think you know better than the ancient Sangha ?
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