Did Buddha say "let forget the words, let the meaning have remained"?

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SarathW
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Did Buddha say "let forget the words, let the meaning have remained"?

Post by SarathW »

Did Buddha say "let's forget the words, let the meaning have remained, or something similar"?

If yes, which Sutta?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Re: Did Buddha say "let forget the words, let the meaning have remained"?

Post by DNS »

SarathW wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:32 am Did Buddha say "let's forget the words, let the meaning have remained, or something similar"?

If yes, which Sutta?
It sounds like a fake Buddha quote, but perhaps might be a (bad) paraphrase of:

"Monks, these two slander the Tathagata. Which two? He who explains a discourse whose meaning needs to be inferred as one whose meaning has already been fully drawn out. And he who explains a discourse whose meaning has already been fully drawn out as one whose meaning needs to be inferred. These are two who slander the Tathagata."
https://accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an ... .than.html (Thanissaro, translator)

Note the latter, that the Sutta speaks for itself, no additional meaning needed to be inferred.
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robertk
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Re: Did Buddha say "let forget the words, let the meaning have remained"?

Post by robertk »

also could you be thinking of this?

http://obo.genaud.net/dhamma-vinaya/pts ... od.pts.htm

Aŋguttara-Nikāya
II. Dukanipāta
II. Adhikaraṇa Vagga


, these two things
conduce to the confusion and disappearance
of true Dhamma.

What two?

The wrong expression of the letter (of the text)[48]
and wrong interpretation of the meaning of it.

For if the letter be wrongly expressed,
the interpretation of the meaning is also wrong.


These two things
conduce to the confusion and disappearance
of true Dhamma.

Monks, these two things
conduce to the establishment,
the non-confusion,
to the non-disappearance
of true Dhamma.
What two?

The right expression of the letter
and right interpretation of the meaning.
For if the letter be rightly expressed,
the interpretation of the meaning is also right.

These two things conduce to the establishment,
the non-confusion,
to the non-disappearance
of true Dhamma.'
form
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Re: Did Buddha say "let forget the words, let the meaning have remained"?

Post by form »

A lot of thing people said the Buddha said..... But you look thru all the nikaya and he never directly said those.
SarathW
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Re: Did Buddha say "let forget the words, let the meaning have remained"?

Post by SarathW »

form wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:23 am A lot of thing people said the Buddha said..... But you look thru all the nikaya and he never directly said those.
That is why I said "words to that effect"
It appears Buddha asked us not to be bog down in words but to try to understand the meaning.
Most of our disputes revolving around the words as we do not know the meaning.
For instance - Namarupa, rebirth,Nibbana etc.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Dhammanando
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Re: Did Buddha say "let forget the words, let the meaning have remained"?

Post by Dhammanando »

SarathW wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:32 am Did Buddha say "let's forget the words, let the meaning have remained, or something similar"?

If yes, which Sutta?
The relevant Suttas are MN 103 and DN 29, but neither support your quotation. In the former it's taught that the meaning is more important than the phrasing, but in the latter it's taught that accurate phrasing is important nonetheless.
“Now if you think thus: ‘These venerable ones agree about the meaning but differ about the phrasing,’ then whichever bhikkhu you think is the more reasonable should be approached and addressed thus: ‘The venerable ones agree about the meaning but differ about the phrasing. The venerable ones should know that it is for this reason that there is agreement about the meaning but difference about the phrasing. But the phrasing is of lesser account. Let the venerable ones not fall into a dispute over what is of lesser account.’”
(Kinti Sutta, MN. 103)

“And thus you must train yourselves, being assembled in harmony and without dissension. If a fellow in the holy life quotes Dhamma in the assembly, and if you think he has either misunderstood the meaning or expressed it wrongly, you should neither applaud nor reject it, but should say to him: ‘Friend, if you mean such-and-such, you should put it either like this or like that: which is the more appropriate?’ or: ‘If you say such-and-such, you mean either this or that: which is the more appropriate?’ If he replies: ‘This meaning is better expressed like this than like that’, or: ‘The meaning of this expression is this rather than that’, then his words should be neither rejected nor disparaged, but you should explain to him carefully the correct meaning and expression.”
(Pasadika Sutta, DN. 29)
Anabhirati kho, āvuso, imasmiṃ dhammavinaye dukkhā, abhirati sukhā.

“To not delight in this dhammavinaya, friend, is painful; to delight in it is bliss.”
(Sukhasutta, AN 10:66)
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Re: Did Buddha say "let forget the words, let the meaning have remained"?

Post by SarathW »

The relevant Suttas are MN 103 and DN 29, but neither support your quotation. In the former it's taught that the meaning is more important than the phrasing, but in the latter it's taught that accurate phrasing is important nonetheless.
Thank you, Bhante.
I think this post itself is an example of that "inaccurate phrasing"
:D
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justindesilva
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Re: Did Buddha say "let forget the words, let the meaning have remained"?

Post by justindesilva »

SarathW wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:32 am Did Buddha say "let's forget the words, let the meaning have remained, or something similar"?

If yes, which Sutta?
In agganna sutta lord budda states that "Damma is the best thing in this life and the next".
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