Asura realm

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Bundokji
Posts: 6494
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:57 pm

Re: Asura realm

Post by Bundokji »

rajitha7 wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:28 am * The Asura is a human clan. It's often confused with the Bhutha of the 31 realms.
* The Yakka is a human clan. It's often confused with the Petha of the 31 realms.
* The Deva is also a human clan. It's often confused with the Deva of the 31 realms.
* The Naga is a human clan. It's often confused with non-existent Naga of the 31 realms.
Where can i read more about this, please? I mean the description of the clans that you shared.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
form
Posts: 3471
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:23 am

Re: Asura realm

Post by form »

Dhammanando wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:43 pm
rajitha7 wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:51 pm Well, living beings are born Deva because there is no hatred in their mindset. So going to war would be something that is next to impossible for a Deva.

Only humans are capable of war. So it's a strange translation.
It's a perfectly sound translation by Bhikkhu Bodhi. Moreover, the suttas are full of allusions to past wars between devas and asuras. For the references see the entry for "asura" in Malalasekera's dictionary:

http://aimwell.org/DPPN/asura.html

Now there is actually a type of human whom the Buddha calls an asura, but it's not a tribe of people.
Asura Sutta

“Mendicants, these four people are found in the world. What four?

1. A demon (asura) surrounded by demons,
2. a demon surrounded by gods,
3. a god surrounded by demons, and
4. a god surrounded by gods.

And how is a person a demon surrounded by demons? It’s when a person is unethical, of bad character, and their followers are the same. That’s how a person is a demon surrounded by demons.

And how is a person a demon surrounded by gods? It’s when a person is unethical, of bad character, but their followers are ethical, of good character. That’s how a person is a demon surrounded by gods.

And how is a person a god surrounded by demons? It’s when a person is ethical, of good character, but their followers are unethical, of bad character. That’s how a person is a god surrounded by demons.

And how is a person a god surrounded by gods? It’s when a person is ethical, of good character, and their followers are the same. That’s how a person is a god surrounded by gods.

These are the four people found in the world.'


https://suttacentral.net/an4.91/en/sujato
Yeah. I wanted to ask Bhante about this and Change quoted this. So Asura are found within humans?
form
Posts: 3471
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:23 am

Re: Asura realm

Post by form »

What about nagas and yakkhas? What realms are they?
befriend
Posts: 2284
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:39 am

Re: Asura realm

Post by befriend »

Venerable punnadhammo has a 700 page book on Buddhist cosmology on his website at arrow River monastery in Canada
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
befriend
Posts: 2284
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:39 am

Re: Asura realm

Post by befriend »

Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
User avatar
Dhammanando
Posts: 6492
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:44 pm
Location: Mae Wang Huai Rin, Li District, Lamphun

Re: Asura realm

Post by Dhammanando »

form wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:43 am Yeah. I wanted to ask Bhante about this and Change quoted this. So Asura are found within humans?
No. But some humans were figuratively compared to asuras by the Buddha. For actual asuras let me repost the link to Malalasekera's dictionary:

http://aimwell.org/DPPN/asura.html
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
form
Posts: 3471
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:23 am

Re: Asura realm

Post by form »

Dhammanando wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:00 pm
form wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:43 am Yeah. I wanted to ask Bhante about this and Change quoted this. So Asura are found within humans?
No. But some humans were figuratively compared to asuras by the Buddha. For actual asuras let me repost the link to Malalasekera's dictionary:

http://aimwell.org/DPPN/asura.html
Thank you sir. Very informative. Just what I need.
rajitha7
Posts: 338
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:14 am

Re: Asura realm

Post by rajitha7 »

Dhammanando wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:22 pm “Well done, deity! (1) It’s good that you didn’t kill that monk. If you had killed that monk today, you would have made much demerit. The tree in such-and-such a spot is empty; take that as your dwelling.”
Dhammanando wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:43 pm 3. a god (2) surrounded by demons, and
1 . Sādhu sādhu, devate.
2. Devo asuraparivāro,

Yes, so in the first instance the Deva has been translated as a "diety". In the second instance the Deva has been translated as a "god". These are both wrong. (see below)

In both instances a person from the Deva human clan/tribe has been confused as gods and deities. The Deva clan is the clan Buddha hailed from. All persons from the Kosala, Sakya, Vajji Kingdoms etc were Devas.
rajitha7 wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:28 am * The Asura is a human clan. It's often confused with the Bhutha of the 31 realms.
* The Yakka is a human clan. It's often confused with the Petha of the 31 realms.
* The Deva is also a human clan. It's often confused with the Deva of the 31 realms.
* The Naga is a human clan. It's often confused with non-existent Naga of the 31 realms.

Normally, a way to differentiate is to see if a name or gender is mentioned. The fine matter beings do not have names or a gender. They are spontaneously born without requiring a mothers womb.
Any Deva from the 31 realms do not have names, they do not have families or gender. They are fine matter beings. They cannot engage in human conversation either. Whether they are "sense sphere" does not matter. They cannot hate. The only "Deva" who can are the Deva clan of people.
It's all -> here
rajitha7
Posts: 338
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:14 am

Re: Asura realm

Post by rajitha7 »

Bundokji wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:20 pm Where can i read more about this, please? I mean the description of the clans that you shared.
You can find more info -> here.
It's all -> here
User avatar
jwstone
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2023 4:20 pm

Re: Asura realm

Post by jwstone »

Dhammanando wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:26 pm
rajitha7 wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:03 am
The Asura (drunkards) is a clan of human beings.
To judge from the Lokacintāsutta they must be awfully tiny humans.

:lol:
“Bhikkhus, once in the past a certain man set out from Rajagaha and went to the Sumagadha Lotus Pond, thinking: ‘I will reflect about the world.’ He then sat down on the bank of the Sumagadha Lotus Pond reflecting about the world. Then, bhikkhus, the man saw a four-division army entering a lotus stalk on the bank of the pond. Having seen this, he thought: ‘I must be mad! I must be insane! I’ve seen something that doesn’t exist in the world.’ The man returned to the city and informed a great crowd of people: ‘I must be mad, sirs! I must be insane! I’ve seen something that doesn’t exist in the world.’

“They said to him: ‘But how is it, good man, that you are mad? How are you insane? And what have you seen that doesn’t exist in the world?’

“‘Here, sirs, I left Rajagaha and approached the Sumagadha Lotus Pond … as above … I saw a four-division army entering a lotus stalk on the bank of the pond. That’s why I’m mad, that’s why I’m insane, and that’s what I’ve seen that doesn’t exist in the world.’

“‘Surely you’re mad, good man! Surely you’re insane! And what you have seen doesn’t exist in the world.’

“Nevertheless, bhikkhus, what that man saw was actually real, not unreal. Once in the past the devas and the asuras were arrayed for battle. In that battle the devas won and the asuras were defeated. In their defeat, the asuras were frightened and entered the asura city through the lotus stalk, to the bewilderment of the devas.
https://legacy.suttacentral.net/en/sn56.41
Interesting! This reminds me of the fey/fairy tales of Europe. I wonder if there could be some connection around the world with people seeing these things?
Post Reply