Cetanahan bhikkave kamman vadami?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Alino
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Re: Cetanahan bhikkave kamman vadami?

Post by Alino »

mjaviem wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:03 pm
Alino wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:14 pm ...
In order to develop this skill we have to train ourselves in meditation...
What do you mean by train in meditation? What kind of meditation? How to perform it? Where and when? If I may ask.
I mean Samma Samadhi, or in other words : peace that create wisdom.
What is wisdom?
Wisdom is a capacity of mind to take a step back from phenomenas, create space, take a perspective on them in order to see them not as "me, mine, myself" but as "objects of mind", passing conditioned phenomenas. This capacity of watching them as they are - impermanent, conditioned, unliable, not me, not mine, not myself - is a Right View. It's a base for all work of uprooting.

When mind reach stable peace, all what is unstable and unpeacefull is directly seen as alien, dukkha, as not me, not mine, not myself.

To reach that peace we can use all kinds of objects, one that make our mind clear, bright and peacefull. Meditation is about letting go... More we let go, more clear, bright and peaceful mind is. Meditation is about awakening, so in meditation we awake our mind. An awake mind is a bright mind.

Also, what is fondamental, is making our life peacefull and simple in daily life. 8 percept - is ideal. Not disturbing and agitating our mind with sense stimulations. If we complitely immersed in sensual world we will feed and develop our hindrances which weaken and hide our wisdom.

Actualy it's just a Sila (8 precepts) Samadhi (clear, bright, peaceful mind) and Panna (making a step back in order to directly see phenomenas as not me, not mine, not myself; also we can use analogy of space - creating a space around phenomenas, making our mind spacious. Meritous deeds can also create and support this spacious mind, because merits add clear water and make it less salty, create space in some kind...)

Imho...
We don't live Samsara, Samsara is living us...

"Form, feelings, perceptions, formations, consciousness - don't care about us, we don't exist for them"
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mjaviem
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Re: Cetanahan bhikkave kamman vadami?

Post by mjaviem »

Alino wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:01 pm I mean Samma Samadhi, or in other words...
Ok, thanks. I'll probably be asking in a new thread later to not be off-topic on this one. Thank you.

EDIT: Here is the topic: viewtopic.php?f=41&t=39919
Namo Tassa Bhagavato Arahato Sammā Sambuddhassa
SarathW
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Re: Cetanahan bhikkave kamman vadami?

Post by SarathW »

Alino wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:14 pm
asahi wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:50 am
Alino wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:56 am If some evil thought just pop up in your mind there is no problems - it's a past kamma result, we have to just let it go, not touch it. But if you sustainit and indulge in it mentally - you create future arising of it; or if act upon it verbally or bodily...
Hi do you mind give an example or two ? Say if you look at pretty girls and craves to have them as girl friend ?
SarathW wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:52 am
Alino wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:56 am If some evil thought just pop up in your mind there is no problems - it's a past kamma result, we have to just let it go, not touch it. But if you sustainit and indulge in it mentally - you create future arising of it; or if act upon it verbally or bodily...
Your statement seems incorrect as per Ven. Pesala's post.
From what I've heared from my Teachers, we can't choose to think only good thoughts. Why? Because they don't belong to us. Only we can do is to observe thoughts that are already arisen as result of past kamma, various causes and conditions.

If any unwholesome thought just pops up once - it's not a problem. If there is unwholesome thoughts that arise regularly - treatment of Right Effort is need.

If we see a beautiful girl or boy and sensual thoughts arise - if we don't indulge in it by grasping on it and developing further these thoughts; if we don't follow them by speach or action; (greed+delusion)
if we don't try to suppress them with unwholesome means (distractions of all kinds); (hatred+delusion)
but if we are fully open to that mental state, fully aware of it, and if we understand and see it as it realy is - as impermanent conditioned unliable phenomena, as not me, not mine, not myself - and let this thought to arise, endure, and cease without fueling it - its a Middle Way, way if non-greed, non-hatred and non-delusion. Kamma that lead to cessation of all kamma.

In order to develop this skill we have to train ourselves in meditation by means of letting go of mental phenomena that are not ours, not touching or destroying things that not belonging to us - and all our mental states not belong to us, if we tuch them. Its a corona virus.
Meditation, wisdom and patience (sila samadhi panna) help us to create necessary space in our minds in order to let phenomenas ceasse by themselves.

If we are diligent in that practice, unwholesome thoughts will become weaker without food, arise less often, and eventually ceasse to appear in our experiance.

Intresting illustration from Ajahn Jayasaro :
OK I see your point.
When you exercise Satipathana (Sati) unwholesome thoughts becomes wholesome (beautiful).
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Alino
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Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:15 pm

Re: Cetanahan bhikkave kamman vadami?

Post by Alino »

SarathW wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:50 am OK I see your point.
When you exercise Satipathana (Sati) unwholesome thoughts becomes wholesome (beautiful).
They still unwholesome, but our attitude to them becomes wise and wholesome.
Poison is not dangerous if our hand have no wounds.
Seeing true nature of phenomenas prevent us to consider them as ME, and act upon them.

If you see a beautiful cat and you know it have rage illness - you wouldn't touch it.
If you see a big tiger you will better still complitely quiet so it will not attack you.
In the same way Mara can comme and go, it's his domain, he is at home... but if we don't react, don't be affraid (get rid of it in unwholesome way with anger or delusion), or don't be attracted by it and stay unmoved internally - Mara will not see us and go away, he is impermanent.
Why would we be affraid or hold on something impermanent?
The thing here is to be courageous enought to patiently and wisely endure greed or hatred. When we clearly saw that this greed, or thus hatred, was arisen by its own, was sustained by its own, and wanished by its own - our mind becomes disenchanted: "Ha! It's just this !..." so the next time it will be easier to not react and see again in our own experience : - it's impermanent! ^^

The role of Sati here - is keep our mind "undeluded" by manifestations, not be caught by them, owerhealm by them.
How does it works?
By taking refuge in something greater, our mind is not perturbed by something lesser. For example if you dwell in perception of breath - when you will see something lustfull or frightening, but you still breathing - these objects will not threaten your inner peace - because you still breath, yes it can change its rate, but it is the same breath... If you take refuge in infinite space - all forms will loose their importance, no matter the form because its all manifested within the space. If you take refuge in infinite consciousness - not only forms, but all sense objects will loose their power on you, because your mind don't dwell on objects of consciousness but on the quality of consciousness it self, being conscious of something not different from being consciousness of something different. But the greater refuge of all is Nibbana. If we discover it, and take refuge in it - then all what is anicca, dukkha and anatta, the whole domain of dukkha, the whole Samsara will loose their power on our mind, because Nibbana is unborn, uncreated, unformed, unconditioned - so, if developped fully, the mind will be unperturbed by all what is born, created, formed, conditioned...

Nibbana devide Samsara by zero. Consumes it as the lamp consumes the oil.

Imho
We don't live Samsara, Samsara is living us...

"Form, feelings, perceptions, formations, consciousness - don't care about us, we don't exist for them"
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