property of deathlessness

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asahi
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property of deathlessness

Post by asahi »

What does it means ? Is it something can be made known ? Pls give some example .

Thanks
No bashing No gossiping
Alino
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Re: property of deathlessness

Post by Alino »

Unborn, uncreate, unformed, unconditioned...

Silence is unborn, uncreate, unformed, inconditioned
Zero is unborn, uncreate, unformed, inconditioned
Peace is unborn, uncreate, unformed, inconditioned
Nibbana is unborn, uncreated, unformed, unconditioned

There is no noise without inherent silence
There is no maths without inherent zero
There is no movement without inherent peace
There is no dukkha without inherent Nibbana
AN 10.58

(1) In what are all things rooted? kiṁ mūlakā, āvuso, sabbe dhammā,
(2) In what are all things born? kiṁ sambhavā sabbe dhammā,
(3) In what do all things arise? kiṁ samudayā sabbe dhammā,
(4) In what do all things converge? kiṁ samosaraṇā sabbe dhammā,
(5) What is the leader of all things? kiṁ pamukhā sabbe dhammā,
(6) What is the supreme lord of all things? kiṁ adhipateyyā sabbe dhammā,
(7) What is the highest of all things? kiṁ uttarā sabbe dhammā,
(8) What is the essence of all things? kiṁ sārā sabbe dhammā,
(9) What is the firm footing for all things? kiṁ ogadhā sabbe dhammā,
(10) What is the complete ending for all things? kiṁ pariyosānā sabbe dhammâ ti,

(1) Rooted in desire are all things, chanda,mūlakā, āvuso, sabbe dhammā,
(2) Born in attention are all things, manasikāra,sambhavā sabbe dhammā,
(3) Arisen through contact are all things, phassa,samudayā sabbe dhammā,
(4) Converging in feeling are all things, vedanā,samosaraṇā sabbe dhammā,
(5) Concentration is the leader of all things, samādhi-p,pamukhā sabbe dhammā,
(6) Mindfulness is the lord of all things, sat’ādhipateyyā sabbe dhammā,
(7) Wisdom is the highest of all things, paññ’uttarā sabbe dhammā,
(8) Liberation is its essence of all things, vimutti,sārā sabbe dhammā.
(9) All things find a firm footing in the death-free, amat’ogadhā sabbe dhammā,
(10) All things have nirvana as their complete ending. nibbāna,pariyosānā sabbe dhammâ ti.
We don't live Samsara, Samsara is living us...

"Form, feelings, perceptions, formations, consciousness - don't care about us, we don't exist for them"
auto
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Re: property of deathlessness

Post by auto »

I think for now deathless are aggregates what can be used as a nutriment. Clinging aggregates.
https://suttacentral.net/an1.616-627/en/sujato wrote: “Mendicants, those who have lost mindfulness of the body have lost the deathless.
“Amataṁ tesaṁ, bhikkhave, parihīnaṁ yesaṁ kāyagatāsati parihīnā.
Those who haven’t lost mindfulness of the body haven’t lost the deathless.”
Amataṁ tesaṁ, bhikkhave, aparihīnaṁ yesaṁ kāyagatāsati aparihīnā”ti.
asahi
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Re: property of deathlessness

Post by asahi »

Alino wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:58 pm Unborn, uncreate, unformed, unconditioned...
Unfortunately , the deathless is the unknown therefore to state that there are properties of deathless is not reasonable to say . It is not able to be identified .

:shrug:
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Alino
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Re: property of deathlessness

Post by Alino »

asahi wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:29 am
Alino wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:58 pm Unborn, uncreate, unformed, unconditioned...
Unfortunately , the deathless is the unknown therefore to state that there are properties of deathless is not reasonable to say . It is not able to be identified .

:shrug:
How can you identify peace? What are qualities of peace?
We don't live Samsara, Samsara is living us...

"Form, feelings, perceptions, formations, consciousness - don't care about us, we don't exist for them"
pegembara
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Re: property of deathlessness

Post by pegembara »

asahi wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:16 am What does it means ? Is it something can be made known ? Pls give some example .

Thanks
Take the property of space.
Space is not created and not destroyed.
It is permanent unlike all the objects within space.

Space is however a concept. Most people know what space is.

Nibbana isn't a concept - so it is almost impossible to communicate verbally/conceptually. Like trying to tell someone that something tastes sweet.

Or the reality of non-grasping, cessation, release.
"Is cessation nibbana?"

"Yes, O king. All foolish worldlings take pleasure in the senses and their objects; they find delight in them and cling to them. Hence they are carried down by that flood [of passion-translator's interpolation] and are not set free from birth and suffering. The wise disciple of the noble ones [i.e., Buddhas] does not delight in those things. And in him craving ceases, clinging ceases, becoming ceases, birth ceases, old age, death, grief, lamentation, pain, sorrow and despair cease to exist. Thus it is that cessation is nibbana."

"Like space, it is not born, does not decay or perish, it does not pass away here and arise elsewhere, it is invincible, thieves cannot steal it, it is not attached to anything, it is the sphere of ariyans who are like birds in space, it is unobstructed and it is infinite.

https://human.libretexts.org/Bookshelve ... ng_Milinda
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
justindesilva
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Re: property of deathlessness

Post by justindesilva »

Alino wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:35 am
asahi wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:29 am
Alino wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:58 pm Unborn, uncreate, unformed, unconditioned...
Unfortunately , the deathless is the unknown therefore to state that there are properties of deathless is not reasonable to say . It is not able to be identified .

:shrug:
How can you identify peace? What are qualities of peace?
If paticcasamuppada is the conditions leading to death ( jara marana) then reverse will lead to deathless state . It is the state unconditioned.,
Alino
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Re: property of deathlessness

Post by Alino »

justindesilva wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:51 am
Alino wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:35 am
asahi wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:29 am

Unfortunately , the deathless is the unknown therefore to state that there are properties of deathless is not reasonable to say . It is not able to be identified .

:shrug:
How can you identify peace? What are qualities of peace?
If paticcasamuppada is the conditions leading to death ( jara marana) then reverse will lead to deathless state . It is the state unconditioned.,
What I meant by this question is that the only way we can give définition to the peace is by négative form. Peace is an absense of agitation.
In the same way Buddha described Nibbana in négative forms, as absense of dukkha (or absense of information).
We don't live Samsara, Samsara is living us...

"Form, feelings, perceptions, formations, consciousness - don't care about us, we don't exist for them"
auto
Posts: 4583
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: property of deathlessness

Post by auto »

https://suttacentral.net/sn15.13/en/sujato wrote: “Mendicants, transmigration has no known beginning.
“Anamataggoyaṁ, bhikkhave, saṁsāro.
No first point is found of sentient beings roaming and transmigrating, hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving.
Pubbā koṭi na paññāyati avijjānīvaraṇānaṁ sattānaṁ taṇhāsaṁyojanānaṁ sandhāvataṁ saṁsarataṁ.
amato is different word but it can be translated everlasting,
https://dictionary.sutta.org/browse/a/amato/ wrote: Pali-Dictionary Vipassana Research Institute
amato:Eternal,everlasting
https://dictionary.sutta.org/browse/a/amata/ wrote:Buddhist Dictionary by NYANATILOKA MAHATHERA
amata:(Sanskrit amṛta; Pāḷi root mar to die; = Gr. ambrosia):'Deathlessness' according to popular belief also the gods' drink conferring immortality,is a name for Nibbāna (s. Nibbāna),the final liberation from the wheel of rebirths,and therefore also from the ever-repeated deaths .
what i am thinking currently is that the roaming is not the problem, being hindered by ignorance is; ignorance and craving is why we get a body, to be able to survive in the hostile environment, perhaps.
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