Buddhadasa (paticcasamuppada) His comments on the Commentaries

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sunnat
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Post by sunnat »

"no one would (truly) understand "arising and vanishing" - except through direct experience and only then the words of The Buddha can be truly understood.
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Jeff_
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Re: Buddhadasa (paticcasamuppada) His comments on the Commentaries

Post by Jeff_ »

One point Ajahn Buddhadasa makes early on in Heartwood of the Bodhi Tree about Abhidhamma is that parts of it have become psychology and parts of it philosophy, and it has expanded to fulfill the needs of those discplines. The result is a bewildering diversity and complexity where, in his view, there should only be the quenching of dukkha.
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Coëmgenu
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Re: Buddhadasa (paticcasamupadda) His comments on the Commentaries

Post by Coëmgenu »

Coëmgenu wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:18 pmVen Nāgārjuna and AFAIK also the Vibhāsakas have a "three life model."
So I have to retract this. It's a "three times" model rather than a "three lives" model, but it seems to be based on the same general logic. More to come in the Nagarjuna DO thread.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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mikenz66
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Re: Buddhadasa (paticcasamupadda) His comments on the Commentaries

Post by mikenz66 »

Coëmgenu wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:19 am
Coëmgenu wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:18 pmVen Nāgārjuna and AFAIK also the Vibhāsakas have a "three life model."
So I have to retract this. It's a "three times" model rather than a "three lives" model, but it seems to be based on the same general logic. More to come in the Nagarjuna DO thread.
The Visuddhimagga also uses the wording "three times", though this does seem to be talking about lives:
Vism XVII.287
The past, the present and the future are its three times. Of these, it should
be understood that, according to what is given as such in the texts, the two
factors ignorance and formations belong to the past time, the eight beginning
with consciousness belong to the present time, and the two, birth and ageing-
and-death, belong to the future time.
But it later goes on to make another division between feeling and craving:
290. 2. But there are four sections, which are determined by the beginnings
and ends of the links, that is to say, ignorance/ formations is one section;
consciousness/mentality-materiality/ sixfold base/contact/feeling is the
second; craving/clinging/ becoming is the third; and birth/ageing-and-death
is the fourth. This is how it should be understood to have four different sections.

291. 3. Then:
(a) There were five causes in the past,
(b) And now there is a fivefold fruit;
(c) There are five causes now as well,
(d) And in the future fivefold fruit.
It is according to these twenty spokes called “qualities” that the words its
spokes are twenty qualities should be understood.
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DooDoot
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Re: Buddhadasa (paticcasamupadda) His comments on the Commentaries

Post by DooDoot »

mikenz66 wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:48 am The Visuddhimagga also uses the wording "three times", though this does seem to be talking about lives:
It appear so, which is probably a reason Buddhadasa held the view Buddhagosa was not an arahant.

MN 38 clearly says paticcasamupadda is a dhamma known in the here & now.

AN 4.189, similar to the stock phrases, says "recollection of past nivasa & jati" uses recollection (sati) rather than psychic power.

It appears Buddhadasa's ideas are well supported by sutta.
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Re: Buddhadasa (paticcasamuppada) His comments on the Commentaries

Post by auto »

Care to differentiate between eye+object+vinnana and namarupa which visuddhimagga is doing. I think the eye+object+vinnana dudes like buddhadasa are prone to neglect the possibility of rebirth being reincarnation into flesh. But that's my squint observation from the quote in first post there, viewtopic.php?f=23&t=34212
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