Signs you will not attain enlightenment ?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
freedom
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Re: Signs you will not attain enlightenment ?

Post by freedom »

devaloka wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:13 pm ...My goal is enlightenment . I have this goal because I dont want to exist anymore including heavenly lifes full of happiness... I just want to cease existing all together and no goal besides that I find worthwhile in any way and nobody can convince me otherwise or gaslight me into thinking otherwise....
You are stuck in your desire for non existent. This is one of the cause of suffering. Therefore, you will not reach your goal if you still cling to it.

Since the root of the problem is still there, and it is very strong and easy to see, so we do not need an enlightened person to know that.
One should not be negligent of discernment, should guard the truth, be devoted to relinquishment, and train only for calm - MN 140.
Srilankaputra
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Re: Signs you will not attain enlightenment ?

Post by Srilankaputra »

Bhikkhus, I praise the right practice of two[kinds of people]: a layperson and one gone forth.

~AN2.40 (Bikkhu Bodhi translation)
The question is, are we on a path of cooling, leading to the highest? (whatever the time frame).

I think this one sutta contains the whole meaning of the Noble Eightfold Path. Although those terms are not used
Kimsila Sutta (Suttanipata 2.9)

Sāriputta:
With what kinds of conduct and morality,
growing in what sorts of karmas,
will a person well-established be
for attainment of the highest goal?

Buddha:

Let that one be an honourer of elders, never envious,
a knower of the right time for the teacher seeing,
and when Dharma’s being taught, a knower of that time
to listen precisely to those well-spoken words.

And at the right time go to the teacher’s presence
in an unassuming way, discarding obstinacy,
with restraint and recollection of the way to practise,
remembering the Dharma for the life of purity.

Dwelling in the Dharma, delighted in Dharma,
in Dharma established, and skilled in deciding Dharma,
never uttering words to the Dharma’s detriment,
Let such a one be guided by well-spoken truths.

Disputatiousness, gossip, complaints and ill-will,
deception, hypocrisy, longing and pride,
aggressiveness, harshness, defilements-attached,
fare abandoning these, pride-free, of steady mind.

Understanding’s the essence of well-spoken words,
while that and the learnt is the essence of calmness;
but wisdom and learning in one do not grow—
that person who’s hasty and negligent both.

Delighting in Dharma by Noble Ones taught,
their mind, speech and body all unsurpassed—
in gentleness, peace, meditative-states firm,
attained to the essence of wisdom and learning

~Laurence Khantipalo Mills translation

PS: I was unable to access suttacentral.net to provide links.

Wish you all success in all your endeavours. Goodbye!
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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Signs you will not attain enlightenment ?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

One of quite a few similar teachings from AN:

AN5.153
  • “Mendicants, someone with five qualities is unable to enter the sure path with regards to skillful qualities even when listening to the true teaching. What five?
    1. They listen to the teaching bent only on putting it down.
    2. They listen to the teaching with a hostile, fault-finding mind.
    3. They’re antagonistic to the teacher, planning to attack them.
    4. They’re witless, dull, and stupid.
    5. And they think they know what they don’t know.
    Someone with these five qualities is unable to enter the sure path with regards to skillful qualities even when listening to the true teaching.
    https://suttacentral.net/an5.153/en/sujato


:heart:
𝓑𝓾𝓭𝓭𝓱𝓪 𝓗𝓪𝓭 𝓤𝓷𝓮𝓺𝓾𝓲𝓿𝓸𝓬𝓪𝓵𝓵𝔂 𝓓𝓮𝓬𝓵𝓪𝓻𝓮𝓭 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽
  • Iᴅᴇᴀ ᴏꜰ Sᴏᴜʟ ɪs Oᴜᴛᴄᴏᴍᴇ ᴏꜰ ᴀɴ Uᴛᴛᴇʀʟʏ Fᴏᴏʟɪsʜ Vɪᴇᴡ
    V. Nanananda

𝓐𝓷𝓪𝓽𝓽ā 𝓜𝓮𝓪𝓷𝓼 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽 𝓣𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓘𝓼
  • Nᴏ sᴜᴄʜ ᴛʜɪɴɢ ᴀs ᴀ Sᴇʟғ, Sᴏᴜʟ, Eɢᴏ, Sᴘɪʀɪᴛ, ᴏʀ Āᴛᴍᴀɴ
    V. Buddhādasa
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Rahula
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Re: Signs you will not attain enlightenment ?

Post by Rahula »

This is something only Buddha can say, according to sutras. There are few examples in sutras where even Arhaths couldn't predicted. There was one famous example involving Sariputta thero.

But, as some monks points out ,you should not try to attain enlightenment. Rather you should let go of every desire and just practice. Enlightenment will follow naturally. If you try to achieve it too much, it will not happen. Like the case with Ananda thero, he tried to attain enlightenment before the first council. Trying hard and been tired, he gave up, and as he gave up the desire to be enlightened fast, he attained enlightenment. How fantastic is that. Ajahn Chan and Ajaha Brahm are two monks who advise like this.

I'm also in the same boat, I also don't want to be reborn. I'm just practising the path. That's all we can do, isn't it? We will get enlightenment in this life time or the next or ...? Do we have a control over it? I think the best thing is to just practice, forget about what others say. Important thing is that we already started it, already trying.

I wish you will attain enlightenment within this lifetime.
I wish all the best and success in every thing you do.
I wish you will be healthy, happy and successful.
I really mean it, I really do.
May you be happy, healthy & successful in everything you do! :anjali:
2600htz
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Re: Signs you will not attain enlightenment ?

Post by 2600htz »

Hi:

Signs you will not attain enlightment:


-You follow a teacher that is unable to talk about enlightment as a real experience and point cases in the present. So just gives you evasives and old/sutta accounts.

-You follow a teacher that is able to do that but you dont visit him, or you just read and listen but dont do the meditation.

-you are unable to follow instructions and do the practice.

-You have a teacher, follow his instructions, but because of bad luck or poor judgement, you follow someone who is wrong. So you end up doing the wrong things.


Regards.
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cappuccino
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Re: Signs you will not attain enlightenment ?

Post by cappuccino »

devaloka wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:13 pm A friend of mine … slipped in his words saying I wont reach any stage in this life.
Matthew 7
devaloka
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Re: Signs you will not attain enlightenment ?

Post by devaloka »

Thank you all for your wonderful replies. Your replies helped me in realizing the only thing I can do is practice and admit that the fruits to be received are unknown to me and out of my control or understanding. Thank you all.



Rahula wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:39 pm This is something only Buddha can say, according to sutras. There are few examples in sutras where even Arhaths couldn't predicted. There was one famous example involving Sariputta thero.

But, as some monks points out ,you should not try to attain enlightenment. Rather you should let go of every desire and just practice. Enlightenment will follow naturally. If you try to achieve it too much, it will not happen. Like the case with Ananda thero, he tried to attain enlightenment before the first council. Trying hard and been tired, he gave up, and as he gave up the desire to be enlightened fast, he attained enlightenment. How fantastic is that. Ajahn Chan and Ajaha Brahm are two monks who advise like this.

I'm also in the same boat, I also don't want to be reborn. I'm just practising the path. That's all we can do, isn't it? We will get enlightenment in this life time or the next or ...? Do we have a control over it? I think the best thing is to just practice, forget about what others say. Important thing is that we already started it, already trying.

I wish you will attain enlightenment within this lifetime.
I wish all the best and success in every thing you do.
I wish you will be healthy, happy and successful.
I really mean it, I really do.
These kind words helped me greatly. Thank you for your warm words they melt the rock of spite, (self)loathing and neuroticism.

I hope liberation will come to you in this lifetime aswell. May you be freed from the samsaric prison and the suffering along with it. May your storm of such existance be calmed and may you find your abode in the undoing and ummaking; the dousing of the candle after all the wax has melted; with its final smoke drifting, disintegrating, breaking down and dissolving with no trace left

Mere suffering exists, no sufferer is found;
The deed is, but no doer of the deed is there;
Nibbàna is, but not the man who enters it;
The path is, but no traveler on it is seen
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Rahula
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Re: Signs you will not attain enlightenment ?

Post by Rahula »

devaloka wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 12:52 am These kind words helped me greatly. Thank you for your warm words they melt the rock of spite, (self)loathing and neuroticism.

I hope liberation will come to you in this lifetime aswell. May you be freed from the samsaric prison and the suffering along with it. May your storm of such existance be calmed and may you find your abode in the undoing and ummaking; the dousing of the candle after all the wax has melted; with its final smoke drifting, disintegrating, breaking down and dissolving with no trace left
Thank you for the appreciation :anjali:
"if these great sal trees could distinguish what is well spoken from what is ill spoken, I would proclaim these great sal trees to be Stream-Winners... bound for enlightenment.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .wlsh.html
'
Above are Buddhas own words.
You may read the full sutta on link above.

Why would Buddha used a brainless dumb tree as an example?
Dhammanando wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:36 pm
Why does anyone resort to hyperbole of any sort?

Chiefly in order to intensify one's utterance in such a way that it makes a more striking, and therefore more memorable, impression upon the audience.

"If learning to tell subhāsita from dubbhāsita could lead even a brainless dumb tree to enlightenment, just think what it could do for me!"
Everybody has a different way of understanding/looking at Dhamma.
Personally, the reason for me, for seeking Nibbana is Samsara Dukkha, that is how I understand it.
I'm trying to understand it deeper by;
Collecting all references about Samsara Dukkha

Please read that thread also for more understanding.
May you be happy, healthy & successful in everything you do! :anjali:
JC938
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Re: Signs you will not attain enlightenment ?

Post by JC938 »

Keep going, daan, sila, bhavana, keep on going and don't worry about anything.
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seeker242
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Re: Signs you will not attain enlightenment ?

Post by seeker242 »

devaloka wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:28 am So I fear he said my fate with the Sidhi of future prediction.
Youre post is very reassuring . My only concern now is if Siddhi skilled individuals can know such a thing?
More likely is that he just sees you continually breaking the precepts and breaking the precepts is a great way to not attain enlightenment. :meditate:
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