Did Buddha say "All worldlings are mad'?

[SarathW]

Did Buddha say "All worldlings are mad'?
"Sabbe Satta Unmattaka" or similar.
If yes what is the Sutta reference?

[Eko Care]

as "Blind":

"Andhabhuto ayam loko"
Blind are the people of this world. (Dhammapada Verse 174 )

"andhabhute puthujjane"
the blind (ignorant) worldlings. (Dhammapada Verses 59 )

as "Like Mad":

Buddhaghosa’s Visuddhimagga says “The worldling is like a madman” (ummattako viya hi puthujjano). This expression is found in a number of other commentarial works as well.

A comment on Shravasti Dhammika’s site claims that the “All worldlings are mad” quote comes from the letters of the English monk Ñāṇavīra Thera, who was quoting from memory the words of Buddhaghosa.

(https://fakebuddhaquotes.com/all-worldlings-are-mad)

[Dhammanando]

Nowhere is it said that a puthujjana is a madman. Rather, it's said that a puthujjana is in one respect like a madman.

From the Visuddhimagga 's chapter on dependent arisal:

[The phrase] "Which for which becomes condition" means that here the exposition should be known according to what kind of clinging is a condition for what [kind of becoming]. But what is condition for what here? Any kind is a condition for any kind. For the ordinary man is like a madman, and without considering “Is this right or not?” and aspiring by means of any of the kinds of clinging to any of the kinds of becoming, he performs any of the kinds of kamma. Therefore when some say that the fine-material and immaterial kinds of becoming do not come about through rules-and-vows clinging, that should not be accepted: what should be accepted is that all kinds come about through all kinds.

[Inedible]

If you spend any time watching people it does seem very believable that all of them are crazy. It is only a question of how crazy they are individually. Before I had a job cleaning bathrooms I had no idea how difficult it could be for normal adults to use toilets and trash cans. Just as an example, the ones who urinate into the toilet paper dispenser seem crazy to me.

[SarathW]

If you spend any time watching people it does seem very believable that all of them are crazy. It is only a question of how crazy they are individually. Before I had a job cleaning bathrooms I had no idea how difficult it could be for normal adults to use toilets and trash cans. Just as an example, the ones who urinate into the toilet paper dispenser seem crazy to me.

There will be a day when toilet papers are banned!
Then you will think that man is not so crazy.

[Nicolas]

People are found who can claim to enjoy bodily health for [years]. But apart from those whose taints have been destroyed, it is hard to find people in the world who can claim to enjoy mental health even for a moment.

[Inedible]

There will be a day when toilet papers are banned!
Then you will think that man is not so crazy.

When that happens I guess I can stop picking up used toilet paper from the floor, too. It will take a lot of years for toilet paper to be replaced with a better system. By then I hope to have a much better job. This isn't what I went to college for.

[Pulsar]

Thanks Nicolas for retrieving Roga sutta. Does anyone know why the links to Sutta central do not work?
I had to find the BB version: That however refers to mental illnesses of monks.
an excerpt:

There are bhikkhus, these four illnesses incurred by a
monk...the 4th one is listed as "He cunningly approaches families,
cunningly sits down, cunningly speaks on the Dhamma,
and cunningly holds in his excrement and urine"

I was a bit confused by the last one. Does that mean he cunningly hides his flaws?
Talking of urine ...i was amused by what inedible wrote...
Yes there are all sorts of nut cases around us. The toilet paper issue can be resolved by installing Bidets, available at Home Depot.
Perhaps economics of installation is the stumbling block????

Inedible wrote

This isn't what I went to college for.

I am sure there are plenty
of college grads doing what you are doing. It is teaching you one truth i.e. how crazy people are.
There is a sutta that says "A man was sitting by a pond and reflecting on the world, and saw
Asuras leaving via a lotus stalk, to escape the Devas"
It came up during a discussion of the study group recently.
The way I understood it finally was any time one reflects on anything but the Four Noble
Truths, one goes mad, and imagines all sorts of things.
Our basic problem, madness of mental proliferation!
Thank you SarathW for a well timed question. We must try to leave the mad house, by
practicing the 8-fold path. Why are we locked inside the nut house of suffering? The first truth
can be phrased in this manner too??? right?
With love

[Assaji]

Perceiving constancy in the inconstant,
pleasure in the stressful,
self in what's not-self,
attractiveness in the unattractive,
beings, destroyed by wrong-view,
go mad, out of their minds.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

[mikenz66]

Thanks Nicolas for retrieving Roga sutta. Does anyone know why the links to Sutta central do not work?

“Mendicants, there are two kinds of illness. What two? Mental and physical. Some sentient beings are seen who can claim to be free of physical illness for a year, or two, or three years … even up to a hundred years or more. But it’s very hard to find any sentient beings in the world who can claim to be free of mental illness even for a moment, apart from those who have ended the defilements.
...
https://suttacentral.net/an4.157

Mike

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

It will take a lot of years for toilet paper to be replaced with a better system. By then I hope to have a much better job. This isn't what I went to college for.

It is called a bidet. My parents had one, but I wondered if it was for washing my feet.
I think it will take a while to catch on everywhere that it needs to.

When I lived in Burma and Thailand, we had no toilet paper, and we used squat toilets. One uses soap and water to wash the bits that one cannot see, and does not wish to see. A squat toilet is better for a healthy bowel movement, and washing does a better job. Not using toilet paper would be a big benefit for the environment.

[cappuccino]

For the ordinary man is like a madman, and without considering “Is this right or not?” … he performs any of the kinds of kamma.

people know right & wrong

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

Ummattakamidaṃ, bhikkhave, ariyassa vinaye yadidaṃ naccaṃ. (A.i.126)

This is madness, monks, in the discipline of the Noble Ones, that is to say, dancing.

[Dhammanando]

For the ordinary man is like a madman, and without considering “Is this right or not?” … he performs any of the kinds of kamma.

people know right & wrong

If you mean that a knowledge of this is innate in all people just by virtue of their being human (as some theists believe), I don't think this is in line with Dhamma. In the latter, a combination of samsāric inheritance and present-life upbringing will generate a moral sense in some but not in others.

[cappuccino]

moral sense in some but not in others.

1 percent of the population meets the criteria for psychopathy