Request for a book recommendation

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Request for a book recommendation

Post by Ceisiwr »

auto wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:26 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:16 pm
auto wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:09 pm
as i understand mn 28 "The form produced" refers to consciousness what manifests when rupa(1st khandha) comes to the vicinity of the eye. Other words vinnana DO link denotes rupa what belongs to the 4th khandha.
No because it says the same for the other 4 aggregates. When experiencing something through the senses the rūpa that is experienced (visual, mental etc) is the rūpa-aggregate and the consciousness that has come to be (based on said experience) is under the consciousness-aggregate. The 4th aggregate is merely intentions, nothing else. You are over complicating and confusing things.
mn 28 "there is the manifestation of the corresponding type of consciousness". The type of consciousness means the type of 4th aggregate(rupa, feeling, perception, sankhara or consciousness). it is simple as your explanation.
"There is a manifestation of" does not mean "4th aggregate". There is no consciousness in the 4th aggregate. It is not simple. It is convoluted and confused.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
auto
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Re: Request for a book recommendation

Post by auto »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:24 pm
Trindolex wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:04 pm Refined and cultivated it is the radiant awareness of ‘infinite consciousness’. Historically, this is where the pre-Buddhist Upaniṣadic yogis such as Yajñavālkya found the Self.

Thanks for the link. I must disagree with Ven. Sujato here. The sphere of "infinite consciousness" along with the other formless attainments are tied with the annihilationists in the suttas/agamas, whilst Yajñavālkya was anything but. The Jhānā seem to be the meditative choice for eternalists, and we see shadows of them in the Upanishads:

यदा पञ्चावतिष्ठन्ते ज्ञानानि मनसा सह ।
बुद्धिश्च न विचेष्टते तामाहुः परमां गतिम् ॥ १० ॥


yadā pañcāvatiṣṭhante jñānāni manasā saha |
buddhiśca na viceṣṭate tāmāhuḥ paramāṃ gatim ||

When the five organs of perception become still, together with the mind,
and the intellect ceases to be active: that is called the highest state.


Kaṭhopaniṣad
except if this two liner is elaborated it is fitted into a condensed form of 200 pages of book. Well good luck thinking you can bias it into there is no senses in jhana.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Request for a book recommendation

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auto wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:32 pm
except if this two liner is elaborated it is fitted into a condensed form of 200 pages of book. Well good luck thinking you can bias it into there is no senses in jhana.
I don't need the Kaṭhopaniṣad to prove that the Jhānā are states shut off from the 5 senses. The suttas alone would do. There is sense in the Jhānā, it's just 1 not 6.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
auto
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Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Request for a book recommendation

Post by auto »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:28 pm "There is a manifestation of" does not mean "4th aggregate". There is no consciousness in the 4th aggregate. It is not simple. It is convoluted and confused.
there is consciousness in 4th aggregate. Its simple, if the object marks you to become aware, like when to reflect on the sentence read about becoming aware.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Request for a book recommendation

Post by Ceisiwr »

auto wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:36 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:28 pm "There is a manifestation of" does not mean "4th aggregate". There is no consciousness in the 4th aggregate. It is not simple. It is convoluted and confused.
there is consciousness in 4th aggregate. Its simple, if the object marks you to become aware, like when to reflect on the sentence read about becoming aware.
No, the 4th aggregate is merely intentions whilst the 5th aggregate is consciousness. The suttas/agamas are even more clear on this point.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
auto
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Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Request for a book recommendation

Post by auto »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:34 pm
auto wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:32 pm
except if this two liner is elaborated it is fitted into a condensed form of 200 pages of book. Well good luck thinking you can bias it into there is no senses in jhana.
I don't need the Kaṭhopaniṣad to prove that the Jhānā are states shut off from the 5 senses. The suttas alone would do. There is sense in the Jhānā, it's just 1 not 6.
It took me only one sitting to realize i won't reach this surface level starting out person not notice any relevant pointers search engine derived information about what jhana will look like when experiencing it.
auto
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Re: Request for a book recommendation

Post by auto »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:37 pm
auto wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:36 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:28 pm "There is a manifestation of" does not mean "4th aggregate". There is no consciousness in the 4th aggregate. It is not simple. It is convoluted and confused.
there is consciousness in 4th aggregate. Its simple, if the object marks you to become aware, like when to reflect on the sentence read about becoming aware.
No, the 4th aggregate is merely intentions whilst the 5th aggregate is consciousness. The suttas/agamas are even more clear on this point.
4th aggregate is about all aggregates what are produced in an aforementioned way.
*in a sense they are intentions. As of commanding.
GL, i got to do something unproductive too today instead of talking about dhamma.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Request for a book recommendation

Post by Ceisiwr »

auto wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:45 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:37 pm
auto wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:36 pm
there is consciousness in 4th aggregate. Its simple, if the object marks you to become aware, like when to reflect on the sentence read about becoming aware.
No, the 4th aggregate is merely intentions whilst the 5th aggregate is consciousness. The suttas/agamas are even more clear on this point.
4th aggregate is about all aggregates what are produced in an aforementioned way.
No it isn't. The 4th aggregate is defined at "intentions".
GL, i got to do something unproductive too today instead of talking about dhamma.
I too must do other things. Good chat.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
form
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Re: Request for a book recommendation

Post by form »

I have never seen a book that clearly outlined the complete mechanisms that the five aggregates work. To see that you need to meditate till your mind is slow and focus, then u can see them in action.
ToVincent
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Re: Request for a book recommendation

Post by ToVincent »

The poor amateur (wanabee professional), takes on an ethereal attitude to prove his great knowledge.
"The Jhānā seem to be the meditative choice for eternalists, and we see shadows of them in the Upanishads - (namely, the Katha).
"Shadow" is an important term here, because it means to show some deepness of knowledge - (or just some contemptible pretention).

I see no "shadow" in the pañcāvatiṣṭhā, no relation with the higher "jhanas".
Pañc-iva-tiṣṭhante [In the same manner that the five "arise and continue to exist" (sthā)], is pure "the continuous self is in me".
?!?!?

This is pure pretending nonsense, to say the least.

The poor amateur should avoid to give his own interpretation on the Veda he hasn't read.
Instead, he should (read the purely pre-Buddhist Veda, if possible), and DEFINITELY stick to the mere historical etymology of those pre-Buddhist texts.
Namely the samhita, brahmana, aranyaka and upanishad, pre-Buddhist texts.

-------

The wanabee professional is often sad, when one does not have his deep knowledge - and also take this etheral attitude, when confronted with it.
- Have you read this article (blog)? , ask someone to the wanabee professional.
- "Sadly" yes!, says the latter.

Please, don't "ensaden" the poor amateur — let him believe in his pretentious ethereally wrapped up nonsense.
.
.
In this world, there are many people acting and yearning for the Mara's world; some for the Brahma's world; and very few for the Unborn.
auto
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Re: Request for a book recommendation

Post by auto »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 12:03 am Rupa aggregate = any object of the 6 senses.
do you mean this rupa is external, as in order to notice this rupa you have to use the body organ(eye, ear) to show it to you?
Inedible
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Re: Request for a book recommendation

Post by Inedible »

mikenz66 wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:42 am
Ven Analayo's book, Satipatthana Meditation, A Practice Guide, PDF here is also quite practical.
Ven / Bikkhu Analayo may well be my new best friend. Thank you.
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