Why "Sati" is always beautiful?

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SarathW
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Why "Sati" is always beautiful?

Post by SarathW »

Why "Sati" is always beautiful?
Mindfulness (sati): this is alertness, which makes us aware of what is happening to us, from moment to moment, through the five physical senses and the mind. Mindfulness is essential to insight meditation, when it must be conjoined with a clear comprehension of the suitability, purpose, and conformity with reality of any action. Then it is called right mindfulness (sammaa sati). Usually the average person acts without any form of mindfulness; his acts are prompted by force of habit. Right mindfulness has two functions: one is to increase the power of recollection and the other is to evaluate what is wholesome and what is unwholesome. Right mindfulness is a spiritual faculty that maintains a proper balance of the other faculties — faith, energy, concentration and wisdom.
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Q: According to Abhidhamma "Sati" is always beautiful though. However, in Sutta, we discuss Samma Sati and Micchasati. Why?
Please give an example for Sati (not Samma Sati) and describe why it is beautiful.
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DooDoot
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Re: Why "Sati" is always beautiful?

Post by DooDoot »

SarathW wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:28 am Q: According to Abhidhamma "Sati" is always beautiful though. However, in Sutta, we discuss Samma Sati and Micchasati. Why?
It appears Abhidhamma only refers to samma sati, as follows:
Therein what is faculty of mindfulness? That which is mindfulness, constant mindfulness, recollection, mindfulness, act of remembering, bearing in mind, non-superficiality, non-forgetfulness, mindfulness, faculty of mindfulness, power of mindfulness, right mindfulness. This is called faculty of mindfulness

https://suttacentral.net/vb5/en/thittila
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SarathW wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:28 am Please give an example for Sati (not Samma Sati) and describe why it is beautiful.
When you remember your mother's birthday and buy her a gift. :heart:
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SarathW
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Re: Why "Sati" is always beautiful?

Post by SarathW »

Please also read Comprehensive Manual Abhidhamma.pdf by Bhikkhu Bodhi for the meaning of Sati in Abhidhamma.
Please Google to download.
Also, search wrong mindfulness in this PDF.
Last edited by SarathW on Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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DooDoot
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Re: Why "Sati" is always beautiful?

Post by DooDoot »

SarathW wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 6:58 am Please also read Comprehensive Manual Abhidhamma.pdf by Bhikkhu Bodhi for the meaning of Sati in Abhidhamma.
Please Google to download.
No.

1st we lack faith in the suttas, so we pretend to have faith in abhidhamma

then we lack faith in abhidhamma so we take refuge in Bhikkhu Bodhi

then we lack faith in Bhikkhu Bodhi, we take refuge in You Tube Sri Lanka monk

when will it ever end? :mrgreen:
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SarathW
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Re: Why "Sati" is always beautiful?

Post by SarathW »

Perhaps it seems this is a controversial topic so I expect input from Ven. Dhammanando and RobertK and others.
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DooDoot
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Re: Why "Sati" is always beautiful?

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SarathW wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 6:58 am Please also read Comprehensive Manual Abhidhamma.pdf by Bhikkhu Bodhi for the meaning of Sati in Abhidhamma.
Please Google to download.
Also, search wrong mindfulness in this PDF.
i already quoted the Vibhanga, There is no need for me to read the PDF

U should post what is relevant from this PDF yourself rather than be so rude expecting others to read this. However, because my mind is well-developed to be patient towards rude individuals, i searched the PDF and found it says the Abhidhamma does not include wrong mindfulness since mindfulness is exclusively beautiful cetasika (page 273)

therefore, both Bhikkhu Bodhi and the Vibhanga affirm what i posted :smile:
SarathW wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:28 am Why "Sati" is always beautiful?
The above question appears faulty because the Abhidhamma probably does not ever say "mindfulness is always beautiful". Instead, the Abhidhamma appears to say "beautiful mental factors always include right mindfulness".

I already posted from the Vibhanga, which defines "mindfulness" as only "right mindfulness".

Since the Abhidhamma lists 14 unwholesome mental factors, it obviously chose not include wrong mindfulness into this list because it cannot include everything :smile:

Wrong mindfulness would fall into the 1st three unwholesome factors:

Moha - delusion
Ahirika - lack of shame
Anottappa - disregard for consequence

It appears obvious wrong mindfulness is caused by the above three unwholesome qualities
Last edited by DooDoot on Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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robertk
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Re: Why "Sati" is always beautiful?

Post by robertk »

From old post
Why is miccha sati given that name in the suttas that talk about the wrong path.
this is because the other factors such as miccha-ditthi , miccha-samadhi, etc are actual realities with their 'opposites' samma-ditthi, samma-sammadhi and so on.
So It destroys the symmetry of the sutta to exclude sati.

In the sallekha sutta commentary it says about miccha-sati that
In truth, miccha sati is not
specific to a particular dhamma, but it is a name for the 4
akusala khandha, which arises in one who thinks of the
past. When the Buddha said, "Bhikkhu, the Tatagatha
said that there is miccha sati not that there isn't.
There is sati in those who thinks of gaining sons, gaining'"O
The Buddha meant the
arising of the fake (artificial, untrue, etc.) sati..
I took this from a ThaI translation so it might be a bit clumsy
SarathW
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Re: Why "Sati" is always beautiful?

Post by SarathW »

In my opinion, "Mitchha" does not mean "wrong"
For instance, a newly born have the "Matcha Sati" or beautiful mindfulness but stupid.
The same can be applied to a stupid person or run-of-the-mill person as well.
But it lacks what is wholesome and what is unwholesome (Samma Sati)
Hence the problem lies within the wrong translation of Samma as right and Michha as wrong.
What I am saying is that Michha does not always mean unwholsolme.
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SarathW
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Re: Why "Sati" is always beautiful?

Post by SarathW »

Interesting discussion in this topic.

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=40467&p=627330#p627330
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atipattoh
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Re: Why "Sati" is always beautiful?

Post by atipattoh »

SarathW wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:28 am Why "Sati" is always beautiful?
Right mindfulness has two functions: one is to increase the power of recollection and the other is to evaluate what is wholesome and what is unwholesome.
Referring to what I've said in the other thread, and that you asked once for a summary on Sati; that short post, hopefully, a useful point to ponder.

Without the second essence, the first essence is neutral. So, you can say that it is always beautiful.

The question is similar to asking, "why nothing being felt is blissful?"
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