Do arhants thought generate painful feeling ?

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confusedlayman
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Do arhants thought generate painful feeling ?

Post by confusedlayman »

Arhants thoughts are not rooted in greed delusion or hate... so can we say its impossible for them to generate pain mental feeling or any pain feeling generated by their thoughts?
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Do arhants thought generate painful feeling ?

Post by Ceisiwr »

Arahants still experience contact at all 6 sense bases. Contact at the 6 sense bases means vedana at the 6 sense bases. Arahants can therefore still experience painful vedana when contacting a mental dhamma. What is different for them is that they do not sorrow, lament or grieve etc based on said painful mental contact. There is no underlying tendencies anymore behind the vedana of any type. The Arahant can only fully escape all vedana at the end of life.
“The mental and material are really here,
But here there is no human being to be found,
For it is void and merely fashioned like a doll—
Just suffering piled up like grass and sticks.”


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DooDoot
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Re: Do arhants thought generate painful feeling ?

Post by DooDoot »

confusedlayman wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 1:23 pm Arhants thoughts are not rooted in greed delusion or hate... so can we say its impossible for them to generate pain mental feeling or any pain feeling generated by their thoughts?
u still posting SteRoism. thought is not the cause of feeling
Contact is the cause and condition for the manifestation of the feeling aggregate.

SN 22.82
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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SarathW
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Re: Do arhants thought generate painful feeling ?

Post by SarathW »

confusedlayman wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 1:23 pm Arhants thoughts are not rooted in greed delusion or hate... so can we say its impossible for them to generate pain mental feeling or any pain feeling generated by their thoughts?
Perhaps I would say they don’t generate Kama Tanha,Bhava Tanha and Vibhava Tanha. How ever they still feel the painful feelings, pleasant feelings and neutral feelings.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
asahi
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Re: Do arhants thought generate painful feeling ?

Post by asahi »

If we can separate the physical body as sensation (painful , pleasure and neutral) and mentality as feeling (like or happiness , dislike or sadness and neutral) that would be for a better differentiation .
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confusedlayman
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Re: Do arhants thought generate painful feeling ?

Post by confusedlayman »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 2:01 pm Arahants still experience contact at all 6 sense bases. Contact at the 6 sense bases means vedana at the 6 sense bases. Arahants can therefore still experience painful vedana when contacting a mental dhamma. What is different for them is that they do not sorrow, lament or grieve etc based on said painful mental contact. There is no underlying tendencies anymore behind the vedana of any type. The Arahant can only fully escape all vedana at the end of life.
Im not satisfied with this explaination because arhant should be free from suffering even in this life...
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Re: Do arhants thought generate painful feeling ?

Post by confusedlayman »

DooDoot wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 11:59 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 1:23 pm Arhants thoughts are not rooted in greed delusion or hate... so can we say its impossible for them to generate pain mental feeling or any pain feeling generated by their thoughts?
u still posting SteRoism. thought is not the cause of feeling
Contact is the cause and condition for the manifestation of the feeling aggregate.

SN 22.82
If u think cruel about someone u get painful feeling, if u think of someones good charecter u feel good so thoughts generate feeling... with loving thought u get love feeling deoendend of that thought
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confusedlayman
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Re: Do arhants thought generate painful feeling ?

Post by confusedlayman »

asahi wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 5:49 am If we can separate the physical body as sensation (painful , pleasure and neutral) and mentality as feeling (like or happiness , dislike or sadness and neutral) that would be for a better differentiation .
Mentality is what im talking
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Re: Do arhants thought generate painful feeling ?

Post by DooDoot »

confusedlayman wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 7:37 am If u think cruel about someone u get painful feeling
cruel thought comes from painful feeling. the Dhamma is not the personal experience of puthujjana. the Dhamma says feeling is first born from contact
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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confusedlayman
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Re: Do arhants thought generate painful feeling ?

Post by confusedlayman »

DooDoot wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 8:52 am
confusedlayman wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 7:37 am If u think cruel about someone u get painful feeling
cruel thought comes from painful feeling. the Dhamma is not the personal experience of puthujjana. the Dhamma says feeling is first born from contact
Thought is mental contact
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Do arhants thought generate painful feeling ?

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confusedlayman wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 7:36 am
Ceisiwr wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 2:01 pm Arahants still experience contact at all 6 sense bases. Contact at the 6 sense bases means vedana at the 6 sense bases. Arahants can therefore still experience painful vedana when contacting a mental dhamma. What is different for them is that they do not sorrow, lament or grieve etc based on said painful mental contact. There is no underlying tendencies anymore behind the vedana of any type. The Arahant can only fully escape all vedana at the end of life.
Im not satisfied with this explaination because arhant should be free from suffering even in this life...
I’d be cautious of changing the Dhamma to suit your expectations. The Buddha never said the Arahant is free from all dukkha whilst alive.
“The mental and material are really here,
But here there is no human being to be found,
For it is void and merely fashioned like a doll—
Just suffering piled up like grass and sticks.”


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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Do arhants thought generate painful feeling ?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 2:01 pm ...
Arahants can therefore still experience painful vedana when contacting a mental dhamma.
...
Deep

&

:goodpost:,

however, may not be handled very well by some Arahant-Idealists.


:heart:
.


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Ceisiwr
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Re: Do arhants thought generate painful feeling ?

Post by Ceisiwr »

Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 12:18 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 2:01 pm ...
Arahants can therefore still experience painful vedana when contacting a mental dhamma.
...
Deep

&

:goodpost:,

however, may not be handled very well by some Arahant-Idealists.


:heart:
Indeed. Some people don’t like to hear that the Buddha would have experienced painful mental contacts, as well as visual and auditory ones, upon seeing and hearing that his son was dead. He wouldn’t have felt sorrow, lamentation, grief or despair but it would have been a painful experience.
“The mental and material are really here,
But here there is no human being to be found,
For it is void and merely fashioned like a doll—
Just suffering piled up like grass and sticks.”


Visuddhimagga
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confusedlayman
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Re: Do arhants thought generate painful feeling ?

Post by confusedlayman »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 12:30 pm
Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 12:18 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 2:01 pm ...
Arahants can therefore still experience painful vedana when contacting a mental dhamma.
...
Deep

&

:goodpost:,

however, may not be handled very well by some Arahant-Idealists.


:heart:
Indeed. Some people don’t like to hear that the Buddha would have experienced painful mental contacts, as well as visual and auditory ones, upon seeing and hearing that his son was dead. He wouldn’t have felt sorrow, lamentation, grief or despair but it would have been a painful experience.
I think its ypur version of arhant but real arhant i think will not have any mental trouble
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mjaviem
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Re: Do arhants thought generate painful feeling ?

Post by mjaviem »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 12:09 pm ... The Buddha never said the Arahant is free from all dukkha whilst alive.
What? Is this true? Living and breathing Arahants are not free from all dukkha?
Namo Tassa Bhagavato Arahato Sammā Sambuddhassa
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