Experience about "hadaya-vatthu" as an anchor point?

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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Experience about "hadaya-vatthu" as an anchor point?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

(Request: .... This post is not for debating whether hadaya-vatthu exists or not; Nor about defining "exact" place/"body-part" for hadaya-vatthu.)


Please kindly share any experience (or) knowledge about hadaya-vatthu (whatever it may mean to you) as a convenient anchor point during meditation.



some examples:
  • https://anthonymarkwell.com/dhamma-reso ... tructions/
    (ANTHONY MARKWELL:Vipassana Meditation Teachings and Retreats)
    Establish your awareness in the centre of the body – at the heart base. Feel the warmth and softness in your heart, shining and filling the whole body, the head, arms and legs.

  • Living Dharma: Teachings and Meditation Instructions from Twelve Theravada ...
    By Jack Kornfield
    Ajahn Dhammadharo


    Practice should be developed as continuously as possible in all posture. Now the sensations at the heart base will be stronger.

Thanks.

:heart:
𝓑𝓾𝓭𝓭𝓱𝓪 𝓗𝓪𝓭 𝓤𝓷𝓮𝓺𝓾𝓲𝓿𝓸𝓬𝓪𝓵𝓵𝔂 𝓓𝓮𝓬𝓵𝓪𝓻𝓮𝓭 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽
  • Iᴅᴇᴀ ᴏꜰ Sᴏᴜʟ ɪs Oᴜᴛᴄᴏᴍᴇ ᴏꜰ ᴀɴ Uᴛᴛᴇʀʟʏ Fᴏᴏʟɪsʜ Vɪᴇᴡ
    V. Nanananda

𝓐𝓷𝓪𝓽𝓽ā 𝓜𝓮𝓪𝓷𝓼 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽 𝓣𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓘𝓼
  • Nᴏ sᴜᴄʜ ᴛʜɪɴɢ ᴀs ᴀ Sᴇʟғ, Sᴏᴜʟ, Eɢᴏ, Sᴘɪʀɪᴛ, ᴏʀ Āᴛᴍᴀɴ
    V. Buddhādasa
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Quantum Foam
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Re: Experience about "hadaya-vatthu" as an anchor point?

Post by Quantum Foam »

I am not sure if the chest area corresponds to "hadaya-vatthu". But I often observe the emotions there, especially negative emotions such as fear, depression, melancholy, anger or jealousy. The longer I stay in the NEUTRAL chest area as a naked observer with these emotions, the more they dissolve or at least are no longer perceived as stinging or disturbing.

I have long been looking for a detailed meditation method from a contemporary meditation master that offers the observation of emotions in the chest area with the support of Pali scriptures.
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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: Experience about "hadaya-vatthu" as an anchor point?

Post by Lucas Oliveira »

I didn't know that word "hadaya-vatthu" ..

Thanks for sharing..

has a lot of information on Google

the practice that I do that is similar to this is Brahma Vihara.

and the feeling is very good, in the body, in the mind and in life.

I will try to know more about this practice "hadaya-vatthu" ..

I still have a lot to learn in Theravada Buddhism.

:anjali:
I participate in this forum using Google Translator. http://translate.google.com.br

http://www.acessoaoinsight.net/
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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Experience about "hadaya-vatthu" as an anchor point?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

Quantum Foam wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 4:51 pm I am not sure if the chest area corresponds to "hadaya-vatthu". But I often observe the emotions there, especially negative emotions such as fear, depression, melancholy, anger or jealousy. The longer I stay in the NEUTRAL chest area as a naked observer with these emotions, the more they dissolve or at least are no longer perceived as stinging or disturbing.

I have long been looking for a detailed meditation method from a contemporary meditation master that offers the observation of emotions in the chest area with the support of Pali scriptures.
Thanks a lot for sharing :heart:



Lucas Oliveira wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 11:14 pm ...
the practice that I do that is similar to this is Brahma Vihara.

and the feeling is very good, in the body, in the mind and in life.
...
Great :anjali:
𝓑𝓾𝓭𝓭𝓱𝓪 𝓗𝓪𝓭 𝓤𝓷𝓮𝓺𝓾𝓲𝓿𝓸𝓬𝓪𝓵𝓵𝔂 𝓓𝓮𝓬𝓵𝓪𝓻𝓮𝓭 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽
  • Iᴅᴇᴀ ᴏꜰ Sᴏᴜʟ ɪs Oᴜᴛᴄᴏᴍᴇ ᴏꜰ ᴀɴ Uᴛᴛᴇʀʟʏ Fᴏᴏʟɪsʜ Vɪᴇᴡ
    V. Nanananda

𝓐𝓷𝓪𝓽𝓽ā 𝓜𝓮𝓪𝓷𝓼 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽 𝓣𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓘𝓼
  • Nᴏ sᴜᴄʜ ᴛʜɪɴɢ ᴀs ᴀ Sᴇʟғ, Sᴏᴜʟ, Eɢᴏ, Sᴘɪʀɪᴛ, ᴏʀ Āᴛᴍᴀɴ
    V. Buddhādasa
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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Experience about "hadaya-vatthu" as an anchor point?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

from:
ANALYTICAL STUDY OF THE SOURCES OF VIPASSANĀ MEDITATION AS TAUGHT BY S. N. GOENKA WITH SPECIAL REFERENCE TO THE PAṬISAMBHIDĀMAGGA

A THESIS SUBMITTED TO THE DEPARTMENT OF PALI, SAVITRIBAI PHULE PUNE UNIVERSITY, PUNE
FOR THE AWARD OF THE DEGREE OF DOCTOR OF PHILOSOPHY IN PALI

BY
MR. JAGDISH VISHNU SHINDE

  • MR. JAGDISH VISHNU SHINDE wrote:
    I am a student of Vipassanā meditation as taught by S.N. Goenka since 1989. I have gone through many short and long-term retreats. These retreats helped me in all aspects of life and to grow as an individual.


    Regarding Goenkaji's instructions
    MR. JAGDISH VISHNU SHINDE wrote:If one attains the stage of bhaṅga- total dissolution, then he can practice with the hadayavatthu- body centre, for a while observing very subtle and pleasurable sensations at that point with equanimity.
    ...
    The students who have practised with hadayavatthu (which according to Goenka is equivalent to bhavaṅga) earlier, can fix their attention on the hadayavatthu, and can simultaneously feel the sensations of the entire body. They are allowed to practise for a few minutes in this way, and again should follow the earlier sequence of the practice.
    ...


    Regarding Ledi Sayadaw
    MR. JAGDISH VISHNU SHINDE wrote:With respect to the hadayavatthu, on one of the occasions, Ven. Ledi Sayadaw guides in the following words: ‘When you try to understand the changing phenomena of mind consciousness at the heart-base, give your attention also to what has all along been taken for granted as your thought. Then you will slowly realize that, in reality, none of your thoughts are there. As taught by the Buddha: ‘If one knows that the body is like foam and the mind a mirage, he escapes the clutches of Death (maccu) and attains Nibbāna.’ (Dhp 46). Herein, the body is compared to foam to show its unstable and ephemeral nature, and the mind to the mirage to show the delusion and lack of real substance.’ – (Sayadaw Ledi. 2007: p.73).
    may be either from Ledi Sayadaw's ... The Manual of Light and The Manual of the Path to Higher Knowledge, (or) Manual of Insight

lib.unipune.ac.in:8080/xmlui/bitstream/handle/123456789/9752/08_Chapter%203.pdf?sequence=8&isAllowed=y


:heart:
𝓑𝓾𝓭𝓭𝓱𝓪 𝓗𝓪𝓭 𝓤𝓷𝓮𝓺𝓾𝓲𝓿𝓸𝓬𝓪𝓵𝓵𝔂 𝓓𝓮𝓬𝓵𝓪𝓻𝓮𝓭 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽
  • Iᴅᴇᴀ ᴏꜰ Sᴏᴜʟ ɪs Oᴜᴛᴄᴏᴍᴇ ᴏꜰ ᴀɴ Uᴛᴛᴇʀʟʏ Fᴏᴏʟɪsʜ Vɪᴇᴡ
    V. Nanananda

𝓐𝓷𝓪𝓽𝓽ā 𝓜𝓮𝓪𝓷𝓼 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽 𝓣𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓘𝓼
  • Nᴏ sᴜᴄʜ ᴛʜɪɴɢ ᴀs ᴀ Sᴇʟғ, Sᴏᴜʟ, Eɢᴏ, Sᴘɪʀɪᴛ, ᴏʀ Āᴛᴍᴀɴ
    V. Buddhādasa
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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Experience about "hadaya-vatthu" as an anchor point?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

Ajahn Maha Bua ... Real dhamma arises at the centre of the chest.
  • Venerable Luangpor Pramote Pamojjo wrote:...
    Ajahn Maha Bua said real dhamma occurs at the centre of the chest. Take a look: happiness comes from the centre of the chest. That is, mental happiness. Physical happiness happens across the body. Suffering of mind happens at the centre of the chest. All goodness and badness, greed, anger and delusion, arise from there.
https://www.dhamma.com/dhamma-arises-at-the-heart/
𝓑𝓾𝓭𝓭𝓱𝓪 𝓗𝓪𝓭 𝓤𝓷𝓮𝓺𝓾𝓲𝓿𝓸𝓬𝓪𝓵𝓵𝔂 𝓓𝓮𝓬𝓵𝓪𝓻𝓮𝓭 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽
  • Iᴅᴇᴀ ᴏꜰ Sᴏᴜʟ ɪs Oᴜᴛᴄᴏᴍᴇ ᴏꜰ ᴀɴ Uᴛᴛᴇʀʟʏ Fᴏᴏʟɪsʜ Vɪᴇᴡ
    V. Nanananda

𝓐𝓷𝓪𝓽𝓽ā 𝓜𝓮𝓪𝓷𝓼 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽 𝓣𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓘𝓼
  • Nᴏ sᴜᴄʜ ᴛʜɪɴɢ ᴀs ᴀ Sᴇʟғ, Sᴏᴜʟ, Eɢᴏ, Sᴘɪʀɪᴛ, ᴏʀ Āᴛᴍᴀɴ
    V. Buddhādasa
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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Experience about "hadaya-vatthu" as an anchor point?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

from ... Kanni Meditation Method
  • Saṅkhārupekkhā ñāṇa has 3 qualities as mentioned in the Pāḷi text:

    (1) Be free from likes or dislikes.
    (2) Be free from love or hatred.
    (3) Always be with equanimity (neutral).

    In the Kannī method, it is counted as 6 qualities by adding 3 more qualities:

    (4) Always focus on the heart base.
    (5) The longer it exists in the heart base, the more it becomes smooth and calm.
    (6) The mind does not move from the heart base.

    When the ñāṇa reaches the maximum state, the mind sees asaṅkhata (unconditioned) Nibbāna. If the mind sees Nibbāna, it abandons the saṅkhāra and enters into Nibbāna. If the mind does not see Nibbāna, it is aware of the saṅkhāra again.
The True power of kanni meditation: the essential guide to Ānāpānassati & Vipassanā – Sumangalo, Venerable
(www.budaedu.org/en)
Buddha Educational Foundation

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1F9XaSW ... sp=sharing
𝓑𝓾𝓭𝓭𝓱𝓪 𝓗𝓪𝓭 𝓤𝓷𝓮𝓺𝓾𝓲𝓿𝓸𝓬𝓪𝓵𝓵𝔂 𝓓𝓮𝓬𝓵𝓪𝓻𝓮𝓭 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽
  • Iᴅᴇᴀ ᴏꜰ Sᴏᴜʟ ɪs Oᴜᴛᴄᴏᴍᴇ ᴏꜰ ᴀɴ Uᴛᴛᴇʀʟʏ Fᴏᴏʟɪsʜ Vɪᴇᴡ
    V. Nanananda

𝓐𝓷𝓪𝓽𝓽ā 𝓜𝓮𝓪𝓷𝓼 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽 𝓣𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓘𝓼
  • Nᴏ sᴜᴄʜ ᴛʜɪɴɢ ᴀs ᴀ Sᴇʟғ, Sᴏᴜʟ, Eɢᴏ, Sᴘɪʀɪᴛ, ᴏʀ Āᴛᴍᴀɴ
    V. Buddhādasa
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Pondera
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Re: Experience about "hadaya-vatthu" as an anchor point?

Post by Pondera »

The path starts with the heart and ends with the heart.

“Faith” is found at the bottom of the heart. “Faith” is the remedy for “Angst”, “Anxiety”, etc.

Suffering is the pre-condition for Faith. Please read: https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

Dispassion is the pre-condition for release.

“Dispassion” is the process of the ultimate core of the heart giving up attachment to the skhandas. This where consciousness finally let’s go of the skhandas and we have “release”.

The path starts and ends at the heart.
Like the three marks of conditioned existence, this world in itself is filthy, hostile, and crowded
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Assaji
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Re: Experience about "hadaya-vatthu" as an anchor point?

Post by Assaji »

Hi,
Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 1:37 pm Please kindly share any experience (or) knowledge about hadaya-vatthu (whatever it may mean to you) as a convenient anchor point during meditation.
I practice along the lines of traditional, pre-reform Theravada meditation system, and hadaya-vatthu plays an important role there. Basically, hadaya-vatthu is one of the key places to observe sensations that arise in response to contact with meditation basis (ārammaṇa), in the practice of the second satipaṭṭhāna. I am writing a treatise on the method, where I quote an ancient manuscript “An Explanation Relating to the Teaching”:
By your leave, here and now I will practise following the teachings of his honourable majesty the Omniscient Buddha.

I wish to invoke the honourable characteristic (phra lakkhaṇa) of the minor rapture (khuddakā pīti), in the room of the virtues of the Omniscient Buddha, to appear for me through the door of sight (cakkhudvāra), through the door of imagination (manodvāra) and through the door of touch (kāyadvāra) while I am sitting in meditative training (bhāvanā). If I still cannot invoke the honourable characteristic (Thai phralaksana) of the honourable minor rapture (Thai phrakhutthakapiti), even if my skin shrivels, my blood dries up, my nerves shrink, my back collapses, my bones crumble, but my life can still continue, I will make a further attempt to invoke the honourable characteristic of the honourable minor rapture. When I sit in training (bhāvanā) with my pledge I will gladly perform a preparation (parikamma) ‘buddho, buddho, buddho’, and then a hundred times more, a thousand times more; I will perform a preparation ‘buddho’ one hundred times, one thousand times; I will maintain retention (sati) at my heart-base (hadayavatthu hong)...

May I request the [selective] recognition (saññā) to arise. May this be a means for attaining Nibbāna (nibbāna paccayo hotu).
(Adapted from the translation of the ancient manuscript Kham Pariyai Khuen Tham [An Explanation Relating to the Teaching], dated 1783 CE, in the article: The Old Meditation (boran kammatthan), a pre-reform Theravāda meditation system from Wat Ratchasittharam: The pīti section of the kammatthan matchima baep lamdap. / Skilton, Andrew Trevor; Choompolpaisal, Phibul. In: Aséanie, Vol. 33, 01.2017, pp. 83–116, p. 101.)

:heart:
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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Experience about "hadaya-vatthu" as an anchor point?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

Pondera wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 3:47 pm The path starts with the heart and ends with the heart.
...
The path starts and ends at the heart.
Exquisite. Perfectly agreed. Thanks. If so, however, I suspect there must be deep connections between heart and SI joint :lol:

:heart:







Assaji wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 7:42 pm ...
I practice along the lines of traditional, pre-reform Theravada meditation system, and hadaya-vatthu plays an important role there. Basically, hadaya-vatthu is one of the key places to observe sensations that arise in response to contact with meditation basis (ārammaṇa), in the practice of the second satipaṭṭhāna. I am writing a treatise on the method, where I quote an ancient manuscript “An Explanation Relating to the Teaching”:
... I will maintain retention (sati) at my heart-base (hadayavatthu hong)...

May I request the [selective] recognition (saññā) to arise. May this be a means for attaining Nibbāna (nibbāna paccayo hotu).
...
Thanks a lot.

:heart:
𝓑𝓾𝓭𝓭𝓱𝓪 𝓗𝓪𝓭 𝓤𝓷𝓮𝓺𝓾𝓲𝓿𝓸𝓬𝓪𝓵𝓵𝔂 𝓓𝓮𝓬𝓵𝓪𝓻𝓮𝓭 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽
  • Iᴅᴇᴀ ᴏꜰ Sᴏᴜʟ ɪs Oᴜᴛᴄᴏᴍᴇ ᴏꜰ ᴀɴ Uᴛᴛᴇʀʟʏ Fᴏᴏʟɪsʜ Vɪᴇᴡ
    V. Nanananda

𝓐𝓷𝓪𝓽𝓽ā 𝓜𝓮𝓪𝓷𝓼 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽 𝓣𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓘𝓼
  • Nᴏ sᴜᴄʜ ᴛʜɪɴɢ ᴀs ᴀ Sᴇʟғ, Sᴏᴜʟ, Eɢᴏ, Sᴘɪʀɪᴛ, ᴏʀ Āᴛᴍᴀɴ
    V. Buddhādasa
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Pondera
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Re: Experience about "hadaya-vatthu" as an anchor point?

Post by Pondera »

Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 1:37 am
Pondera wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 3:47 pm The path starts with the heart and ends with the heart.
...
The path starts and ends at the heart.
Exquisite. Perfectly agreed. Thanks. If so, however, I suspect there must be deep connections between heart and SI joint :lol:

:heart:
Oh! But there is! I appreciate that you know my approach.

Ahem. 🧐 In fact the sacroiliac joint is the location of the ochre coloured body-totality.

When opened, there is a region in the heart that gives up its hold on the wind-kasina.

The mind follows the heart and let’s go of the wind kasina.

Perfect Equanimity is achieved.
Not perceiving forms internally, he sees forms externally. This is the second liberation.
SI joint leads to pure bright awareness (adukkhaasukkha) - the fourth jhana! Forsooth 🧐
Like the three marks of conditioned existence, this world in itself is filthy, hostile, and crowded
arkaprava
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Re: Experience about "hadaya-vatthu" as an anchor point?

Post by arkaprava »

Assaji wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 7:42 pm

(Adapted from the translation of the ancient manuscript Kham Pariyai Khuen Tham [An Explanation Relating to the Teaching], dated 1783 CE, in the article: The Old Meditation (boran kammatthan), a pre-reform Theravāda meditation system from Wat Ratchasittharam: The pīti section of the kammatthan matchima baep lamdap. / Skilton, Andrew Trevor; Choompolpaisal, Phibul. In: Aséanie, Vol. 33, 01.2017, pp. 83–116, p. 101.)
Do you have a link of the article ?
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Assaji
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Re: Experience about "hadaya-vatthu" as an anchor point?

Post by Assaji »

arkaprava wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 8:26 pm
Assaji wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 7:42 pm (Adapted from the translation of the ancient manuscript Kham Pariyai Khuen Tham [An Explanation Relating to the Teaching], dated 1783 CE, in the article: The Old Meditation (boran kammatthan), a pre-reform Theravāda meditation system from Wat Ratchasittharam: The pīti section of the kammatthan matchima baep lamdap. / Skilton, Andrew Trevor; Choompolpaisal, Phibul. In: Aséanie, Vol. 33, 01.2017, pp. 83–116, p. 101.)
Do you have a link of the article ?
It's not available in the Net. You may write either to the publisher:
https://publications.efeo.fr/en/livres/ ... -juin-2014

or to the author, Andrew Skilton.
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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Experience about "hadaya-vatthu" as an anchor point?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

  • Sanjay PS wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:04 pm When doing 10 day courses ( retreats ) i have found , as the days go by , any thought that arises in the mind, simultaneously appears to start with a sensation within the heart ,sometimes the sensation becomes amplified and is felt within, and, or over the body .

    Once while taking rest in the night time at the centre, the heart beat became acutely feeble , yet pronounced , in that, it seemed to slowly arise, take the slightest pause , and gradually fade away , and cycled this way , the lub and the dub of the beat ( systolic and diastolic ) , the mental framework of the mind was of deep content.

    Its difficult to feel this in day to day living , and unwholesome conditions can hijack the feeling of a subtle sensation while in the heart :shrug:
:heart:
𝓑𝓾𝓭𝓭𝓱𝓪 𝓗𝓪𝓭 𝓤𝓷𝓮𝓺𝓾𝓲𝓿𝓸𝓬𝓪𝓵𝓵𝔂 𝓓𝓮𝓬𝓵𝓪𝓻𝓮𝓭 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽
  • Iᴅᴇᴀ ᴏꜰ Sᴏᴜʟ ɪs Oᴜᴛᴄᴏᴍᴇ ᴏꜰ ᴀɴ Uᴛᴛᴇʀʟʏ Fᴏᴏʟɪsʜ Vɪᴇᴡ
    V. Nanananda

𝓐𝓷𝓪𝓽𝓽ā 𝓜𝓮𝓪𝓷𝓼 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽 𝓣𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓘𝓼
  • Nᴏ sᴜᴄʜ ᴛʜɪɴɢ ᴀs ᴀ Sᴇʟғ, Sᴏᴜʟ, Eɢᴏ, Sᴘɪʀɪᴛ, ᴏʀ Āᴛᴍᴀɴ
    V. Buddhādasa
arkaprava
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Re: Experience about "hadaya-vatthu" as an anchor point?

Post by arkaprava »

Assaji wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 9:52 am
arkaprava wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 8:26 pm
Assaji wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 7:42 pm (Adapted from the translation of the ancient manuscript Kham Pariyai Khuen Tham [An Explanation Relating to the Teaching], dated 1783 CE, in the article: The Old Meditation (boran kammatthan), a pre-reform Theravāda meditation system from Wat Ratchasittharam: The pīti section of the kammatthan matchima baep lamdap. / Skilton, Andrew Trevor; Choompolpaisal, Phibul. In: Aséanie, Vol. 33, 01.2017, pp. 83–116, p. 101.)
Do you have a link of the article ?
It's not available in the Net. You may write either to the publisher:
https://publications.efeo.fr/en/livres/ ... -juin-2014

or to the author, Andrew Skilton.
Here's the link : https://www.persee.fr/docAsPDF/asean_08 ... 1_2320.pdf
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