Ceisiwr wrote: ↑Sat May 08, 2021 4:55 pm
pitithefool wrote: ↑Sat May 08, 2021 4:39 pm
You're in a jhana, you leave and on account of that concentration, you have insight. Did the insight actually go away while you were in the jhana and suddenly materialize when you left it, or was it there, developing and turning your attention towards it to utilize brought it into your awareness?
You are confusing insight with paññā, which is merely jñā. I wonder if Ajahn Sumedho's concept of "intuitive awareness" is apt here? Possibly not. Regarding insight, as stated, this is the outcome of wise reflection. Of paṭisañcikkhati. This is what the other ascetics lacked, which is why simply attaining the jhānāni is not enough for insight. You have to actually wisely
think and reflect upon said experience. Regarding paññā, defining that is another whole can of worms. Regardless though, this is merely the end result so we need not concern ourselves with it too much here. Actually getting to this state of understanding is what is important. This is via paṭisañcikkhati after access concentration or the jhānāni, leading to insight. To give an example, after reaching access concentration, leaving it, reflecting wisely and gaining the insight followed by understanding that thinking is a disturbance and what is a condition for it then, when entering meditation again, there is simply knowledge of this. You simply naturally let go, naturally have wise attention and the mind calms down far better than before. Intuitive understanding. Intuitive letting go, which isn't a fabrication nor a thought. It isn't willed.
Yes, this is what I mean. The work from learning dhamma makes it so you sort of "just know" and have an intuitive grasp of what to do while meditating. The actual actions that come from it are fabrications though, as is the vipassana, which is a mode of perception, but it's not something I could say you have to exit concentration in order for it to happen. Mind you again the actual letting go, yes that's a sankhara, as is the perception leading to it, but when that happens, the jhana factors neither weaken nor go away, and the fabrications themselves can be extremely subtle. This is why I don't like saying you leave concentration in order to partake of distinction. It's barely noticeable. This comes from practice though. You may have to get "stuck" at the first jhana and leave entirely, then think about it for a day or two, then do it again before your intuitive grasp of it is such to be able to advance. What your doing is setting up the conditions beforehand so that insight into the jhana factors on the spot is understood on a visceral intuitive level.
Again, the vipassana is the sight, and the panna is the knowledge of what to do about it.