What is the Chinese translation for the term "body witness"

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form
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What is the Chinese translation for the term "body witness"

Post by form »

Anybody know?
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Coëmgenu
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Re: What is the Chinese translation for the term "body witness"

Post by Coëmgenu »

如內身身觀住
Iti ajjhattaṃ vā kāye kāyānupassī viharati
Evaṃ adhyātmaṃ kāye kāyānupaśyi viharati

Iti 如 evam

ajjhattaṃ 內 adhyātmaṃ

vā (n/a)

kāye 身 kāye

kāya 身 kāya

anupassī 觀 anupaśyi

viharati 住 viharati
The spotless mind,
the most highly pure, the tranquil,
all unspoiled phenomena supporting,
this name applying to the consciousness of the Tathāgata.

A bodhisattva, one of two vehicles, an ordinary person:
these are thrones which hold seeds subject to germination.
In acquiring the virtuous pure mind of a Buddha,
which is resolute suchness, the sūtra says:

The Tathāgata's spotless mind
is a pure place without outflows.
It is liberation from all bondage.
It is like a spherical mirror.
It is consciousness always in internal agreement.

(T1585.13a19 Vijñaptimātratāsiddhiśāstra)
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Polar Bear
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Re: What is the Chinese translation for the term "body witness"

Post by Polar Bear »

Coëmgenu wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 3:17 pm ...
I think he wants the Chinese translation for kāyasakkhī which Ven Sujato translates as personal witness and Ven Thanissaro as bodily witness.

https://suttacentral.net/an9.43/en/sujato

:anjali:
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."
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Coëmgenu
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Re: What is the Chinese translation for the term "body witness"

Post by Coëmgenu »

Ah, and here I thought kāyānupassī was "body-witness!"
The spotless mind,
the most highly pure, the tranquil,
all unspoiled phenomena supporting,
this name applying to the consciousness of the Tathāgata.

A bodhisattva, one of two vehicles, an ordinary person:
these are thrones which hold seeds subject to germination.
In acquiring the virtuous pure mind of a Buddha,
which is resolute suchness, the sūtra says:

The Tathāgata's spotless mind
is a pure place without outflows.
It is liberation from all bondage.
It is like a spherical mirror.
It is consciousness always in internal agreement.

(T1585.13a19 Vijñaptimātratāsiddhiśāstra)
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Coëmgenu
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Re: What is the Chinese translation for the term "body witness"

Post by Coëmgenu »

Here:

http://www.buddhism-dict.net/cgi-bin/xp ... B%E8%AD%89

Type "guest" in the first user field and leave the rest blank and press enter.
The spotless mind,
the most highly pure, the tranquil,
all unspoiled phenomena supporting,
this name applying to the consciousness of the Tathāgata.

A bodhisattva, one of two vehicles, an ordinary person:
these are thrones which hold seeds subject to germination.
In acquiring the virtuous pure mind of a Buddha,
which is resolute suchness, the sūtra says:

The Tathāgata's spotless mind
is a pure place without outflows.
It is liberation from all bondage.
It is like a spherical mirror.
It is consciousness always in internal agreement.

(T1585.13a19 Vijñaptimātratāsiddhiśāstra)
asahi
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Re: What is the Chinese translation for the term "body witness"

Post by asahi »

Here is the chinese translation .

增支部9集43經

身證者經

「學友!被稱為『身證者、身證者』,大德!什麼情形是世尊所說的身證者呢?」
Either 身證者 or 身作證者

But In mandarin the literal translation is
親身體證者 .
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Coëmgenu
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Re: What is the Chinese translation for the term "body witness"

Post by Coëmgenu »

asahi wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 4:49 pm[...]
Is the 者 not just marking a term here? You think it is part of the word itself? The DBD and Fo Guang Shang dictionary just has 身證 without 者, because it seems to be merely a grammatical particle.
Last edited by Coëmgenu on Tue May 11, 2021 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The spotless mind,
the most highly pure, the tranquil,
all unspoiled phenomena supporting,
this name applying to the consciousness of the Tathāgata.

A bodhisattva, one of two vehicles, an ordinary person:
these are thrones which hold seeds subject to germination.
In acquiring the virtuous pure mind of a Buddha,
which is resolute suchness, the sūtra says:

The Tathāgata's spotless mind
is a pure place without outflows.
It is liberation from all bondage.
It is like a spherical mirror.
It is consciousness always in internal agreement.

(T1585.13a19 Vijñaptimātratāsiddhiśāstra)
asahi
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Re: What is the Chinese translation for the term "body witness"

Post by asahi »

Let me read the whole text first
Last edited by asahi on Tue May 11, 2021 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Coëmgenu
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Re: What is the Chinese translation for the term "body witness"

Post by Coëmgenu »

Edit: I see. You are linking to a contemporary Chinese translation of a sutta. 身證 without 者 is classical, found in agama texts.
「云何比丘我 為說行無放逸?若有比丘非俱解脫亦非 慧解脫,而有身證。云何比丘而有身證?若 有比丘八解脫身觸成就遊,不以慧見諸 漏已盡已知,如是比丘而有身證
(MA 195)
The spotless mind,
the most highly pure, the tranquil,
all unspoiled phenomena supporting,
this name applying to the consciousness of the Tathāgata.

A bodhisattva, one of two vehicles, an ordinary person:
these are thrones which hold seeds subject to germination.
In acquiring the virtuous pure mind of a Buddha,
which is resolute suchness, the sūtra says:

The Tathāgata's spotless mind
is a pure place without outflows.
It is liberation from all bondage.
It is like a spherical mirror.
It is consciousness always in internal agreement.

(T1585.13a19 Vijñaptimātratāsiddhiśāstra)
asahi
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Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:23 pm

Re: What is the Chinese translation for the term "body witness"

Post by asahi »

Sorry i think 者 here refer to bodily witness itself ie referring to a specific thing just mentioned.
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Coëmgenu
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Re: What is the Chinese translation for the term "body witness"

Post by Coëmgenu »

Are you aware that you are quoting a translation of AN 9.43 and not the parallel for it? I had read the OP as wanting the translation used in the parallel, not just any translation. Either way, the 身證者 is used. See the end of the post for more on that.

I agree that 者 is acting as "-ist/-er" here. Just like in journalist, 記者. Maybe I didn't communicate properly. I was just pointing out that the Classical Chinese is different. The link you quoted from leads to the contemporary Chinese translation of AN 9.43 that has footnotes in it and if you click on "身證者" that explains that "身證" appears in all agamas and 身證者 is a minority form from an MA agamasutra.
The spotless mind,
the most highly pure, the tranquil,
all unspoiled phenomena supporting,
this name applying to the consciousness of the Tathāgata.

A bodhisattva, one of two vehicles, an ordinary person:
these are thrones which hold seeds subject to germination.
In acquiring the virtuous pure mind of a Buddha,
which is resolute suchness, the sūtra says:

The Tathāgata's spotless mind
is a pure place without outflows.
It is liberation from all bondage.
It is like a spherical mirror.
It is consciousness always in internal agreement.

(T1585.13a19 Vijñaptimātratāsiddhiśāstra)
asahi
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Re: What is the Chinese translation for the term "body witness"

Post by asahi »

it refers to the thing itself . 者 describes the bodily witness . Sort of : (This) bodily witness . It is a way of describing .
But , if you want to follow the english translation it can means the person or attainer .


And if you want to translate only "bodily witness" it should be 身證 .
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mikenz66
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Re: What is the Chinese translation for the term "body witness"

Post by mikenz66 »

Since the Pali expression is somewhat troublesome to translate into English, perhaps I could extend the OP's question to:
"Does the Chinese translation help us to understand the meaning of the 'body witness"?".

:heart:
Mike
form
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Re: What is the Chinese translation for the term "body witness"

Post by form »

asahi wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 4:49 pm Here is the chinese translation .

增支部9集43經

身證者經

「學友!被稱為『身證者、身證者』,大德!什麼情形是世尊所說的身證者呢?」
Either 身證者 or 身作證者

But In mandarin the literal translation is
親身體證者 .
Yeah. My friend also send me the site link that translate pali to Chinese. It is that.

What about in agama? Is it the same?
form
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Re: What is the Chinese translation for the term "body witness"

Post by form »

mikenz66 wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 9:20 pm Since the Pali expression is somewhat troublesome to translate into English, perhaps I could extend the OP's question to:
"Does the Chinese translation help us to understand the meaning of the 'body witness"?".

:heart:
Mike
Yes. That is exactly my intention. Thank you.
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