Misunderstand about punishment?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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D1W1
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Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 5:52 am

Misunderstand about punishment?

Post by D1W1 »

Hi all,

This post is not to offend anyone.
Without doubt people who are born gay, LGBT, are seen as a punishment, they're reaping the fruit of their bad deeds.

But according to the link below, it's not.
In Theravada Buddhism, which is practised in Thailand, LGBT+ people are sometimes mistakenly seen as paying the price for their bad deeds, or karma, in a previous life, said Mr Waradhammo
.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indepe ... html%3famp

Do you think it's a form of consequence of a bad deed committed in the past or no, and why?
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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Misunderstand about punishment?

Post by JamesTheGiant »

D1W1 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:22 am Without doubt people who are born gay, LGBT, are seen as a punishment, they're reaping the fruit of their bad deeds.
Don't say that D1W1, don't say that.
For worldlings the workings of kamma are hard to see, obscure, uncertain.
None but an enlightened one can tell the working of kamma, the causes and conditions of a being's place in life.

I think it's MN2, Sabbasava Sutta where the
Buddha says it is unwise reflection to think about why a person is like they are. It's unknowable.

Besides that, saying anyone's misfortune is due to kamma, is usually an excuse for treating them like shit or an excuse for turning away from them and not helping.
asahi
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Re: Misunderstand about punishment?

Post by asahi »

Been reading before but not sure which sutta says , bad deeds usually would resulted born in three lower realms and if in human state still suffers poverty , sicknesses , poor complexion and many type of lesser or poorer quality of life .
No bashing No gossiping
Mudita1
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Re: Misunderstand about punishment?

Post by Mudita1 »

Buddha teaching is do good and avoid evil, so it depends on what you choose to believe, what you choose to do and their consequences.

Believe in good Kamma and do good things- Wholesome did
Believe in good Kamma and do bad things- Unwholesome did
Believe in bad Kamma and do good things- Wholesome did
Believe in bad Kamma and do bad things- Unwholesome did
chownah
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Re: Misunderstand about punishment?

Post by chownah »

d1w1,
I don't recall ever seeing anything about punishment in the suttas.....can you bring anything which deals with punishment?....if not then isn't it likely that the idea of punishment is some view that you have which is based on something other than what the buddha taught?
chownah
anagaarika
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Re: Misunderstand about punishment?

Post by anagaarika »

JamesTheGiant wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 4:05 am
D1W1 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:22 am Without doubt people who are born gay, LGBT, are seen as a punishment, they're reaping the fruit of their bad deeds.
Don't say that D1W1, don't say that.
For worldlings the workings of kamma are hard to see, obscure, uncertain.
None but an enlightened one can tell the working of kamma, the causes and conditions of a being's place in life.

I think it's MN2, Sabbasava Sutta where the
Buddha says it is unwise reflection to think about why a person is like they are. It's unknowable.

Besides that, saying anyone's misfortune is due to kamma, is usually an excuse for treating them like shit or an excuse for turning away from them and not helping.

:goodpost: :goodpost:

I absolutely second this - judging other people according to their supposed "bad/good" kamma is a very slippery slope, to say the least. Moreover: How does being gay affect the person´s happiness? Why do you assume it´s a result of bad kamma in the first place? From the worldly point of view, one can be extremely miserable even as a heterosexual.
D1W1
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Re: Misunderstand about punishment?

Post by D1W1 »

When your sexuality is not accepted by society then you will likely suffer, this is what I meant by punishment because it's not pleasure. I can't tell which society rejects a heterosexual compare to homosexual or LGBT.
anagaarika
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Re: Misunderstand about punishment?

Post by anagaarika »

D1W1 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 8:13 am When your sexuality is not accepted by society then you will likely suffer, this is what I meant by punishment because it's not pleasure. I can't tell which society rejects a heterosexual compare to homosexual or LGBT.
This is not black and white: If you live in a big city in Western Europe, for instance, absolutely no one gives a damn about your sexual orientation. This would be different in third-world countries, obviously.

If anything, I would argue that transgender people and the like are the ones more prone to suffer, at least in adolescent age and early adulthood, due to their profound confusion about themselves. Their struggle seems to be even more internalized and not as easy to resolve as to simply accept different sexual orientation.
D1W1
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Re: Misunderstand about punishment?

Post by D1W1 »

I'm not talking about fourth or fifth world countries. Generally speaking, the more you are accepted the less likely you will suffer. This is also true with other thing in life besides sexual orientation. We can't find if this is a form of punishment or not in the scripture. But LGBT people obviously experience more discrimination and or negative experiences compare to heterosexual.
dharmacorps
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Re: Misunderstand about punishment?

Post by dharmacorps »

OP, don't worry about others karma, punishment, or lack thereof. Worry about yourself and your own actions.
D1W1
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Re: Misunderstand about punishment?

Post by D1W1 »

dharmacorps wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 6:23 pm OP, don't worry about others karma, punishment, or lack thereof. Worry about yourself and your own actions.
That's probably the reason everybody joins this forum
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