Stream enterer have more than 7 times rebirth !

[asahi]

Do you think a stream enterer can have more than 7 lifetimes rebirth ?

[SarathW]

Do you believe that the stream-enterer attain Nibbana within seven lifetimes?

[asahi]

Pls refers to sutta below .
In the sutta it says that since many lives ago he (king bimbisara) was aware of his destiny not to be reborn in apayas state .
That he already took birth for 14 times since then .



DN18

“This is now the seventh time, Bhante, that I am reborn into the communion of the great King Vessavaṇa. Deceased as a human king, I am in heaven, a non-human king.
Seven there and seven here, in all fourteen rebirths—So much I know of lives I’ve lived in the past. Long, Bhante, have I, who am destined not to be reborn in states of woe (apayas), been conscious of that destiny, and now there is desire in me to become a Sakadagami.”

[JamesTheGiant]

I have also heard monks say the 7 More Lives are not an absolute, and there are exceptions in the suttas.

[confusedlayman]

Pls refers to sutta below .
In the sutta it says that since many lives ago he (king bimbisara) was aware of his destiny not to be reborn in apayas state .
That he already took birth for 14 times since then .



DN18

“This is now the seventh time, Bhante, that I am reborn into the communion of the great King Vessavaṇa. Deceased as a human king, I am in heaven, a non-human king.
Seven there and seven here, in all fourteen rebirths—So much I know of lives I’ve lived in the past. Long, Bhante, have I, who am destined not to be reborn in states of woe (apayas), been conscious of that destiny, and now there is desire in me to become a Sakadagami.”

his human life 7 times and heaven 7 times were before he attained sotapanna... he attained sotapanna as king and reborn in heaven (1st birth) and attained sakadagami ... he will attain nibbana there or come to earth only once...

[confusedlayman]

I have also heard monks say the 7 More Lives are not an absolute, and there are exceptions in the suttas.

I think in one sutta buddha said stream enterer taking 8th rebirth is 100% impossible .. he said openly..

[DooDoot]

I think in one sutta buddha said stream enterer taking 8th rebirth is 100% impossible .. he said openly..

No. That sutta refers to an 8th bhava. Bhava does not mean "rebirth".

Do you believe that the stream-enterer attain Nibbana within seven lifetimes?

No.

[Zom]

I think in one sutta buddha said stream enterer taking 8th rebirth is 100% impossible .. he said openly..

Yes, it is impossible.
(He said that, for example, in Snp 2.1).

[DooDoot]

Yes, it is impossible.
(He said that, for example, in Snp 2.1).

No. That sutta refers to an 8th bhava. Bhava does not mean "rebirth".

[Zom]

No. That sutta refers to an 8th bhava. Bhava does not mean "rebirth".

It doesn't mean rebirth as a process. But it does mean a lifetime.

[asahi]

DN18

“This is now the seventh time, Bhante, that I am reborn into the communion of the great King Vessavaṇa. Deceased as a human king, I am in heaven, a non-human king.
Seven there and seven here, in all fourteen rebirths—So much I know of lives I’ve lived in the past. Long, Bhante, have I, who am destined not to be reborn in states of woe (apayas), been conscious of that destiny, and now there is desire in me to become a Sakadagami.”

his human life 7 times and heaven 7 times were before he attained sotapanna... he attained sotapanna as king and reborn in heaven (1st birth) and attained sakadagami ... he will attain nibbana there or come to earth only once...

Didnt you read and understand the meaning saids , 《Long long time ago he was already conscious of his destiny he wont be reborn in apayas state 》
It means Long Long time ago since many birth he already a sotapanna because only a sotapanna knows he will not take birth again in Lower realms !

[confusedlayman]

DN18

“This is now the seventh time, Bhante, that I am reborn into the communion of the great King Vessavaṇa. Deceased as a human king, I am in heaven, a non-human king.
Seven there and seven here, in all fourteen rebirths—So much I know of lives I’ve lived in the past. Long, Bhante, have I, who am destined not to be reborn in states of woe (apayas), been conscious of that destiny, and now there is desire in me to become a Sakadagami.”

his human life 7 times and heaven 7 times were before he attained sotapanna... he attained sotapanna as king and reborn in heaven (1st birth) and attained sakadagami ... he will attain nibbana there or come to earth only once...

Didnt you read and understand the meaning saids , 《Long long time ago he was already conscious of his destiny he wont be reborn in apayas state 》
It means Long Long time ago since many birth he already a sotapanna because only a sotapanna knows he will not take birth again in Lower realms !

no... I think I remember a story where bimbisara have 4 or 3 wish in which one wish is to meet buddha face to face so he reborn during buddhas time, 2nd wish is learn the teaching and 3rd wish is attain fruit, 4th wish is he did some good karma so he will always be born in human or deva world without attaining sotapanna ... he made this wish long back and it was granted... so he knew he wont be born in lower world .. I maybe wrong because my memory always fails these days.. I dont know if its bimbisara or buddhas father (another king)

[confusedlayman]

I think in one sutta buddha said stream enterer taking 8th rebirth is 100% impossible .. he said openly..

No. That sutta refers to an 8th bhava. Bhava does not mean "rebirth".

Do you believe that the stream-enterer attain Nibbana within seven lifetimes?

No.

I think u have no idea about scripture... I know its easy to be confused by terminologies and grammar if one is too nerd and cherrypick all words but miss the real meaning...

btw what is Bhava?

[anthbrown84]

his human life 7 times and heaven 7 times were before he attained sotapanna... he attained sotapanna as king and reborn in heaven (1st birth) and attained sakadagami ... he will attain nibbana there or come to earth only once...

Didnt you read and understand the meaning saids , 《Long long time ago he was already conscious of his destiny he wont be reborn in apayas state 》
It means Long Long time ago since many birth he already a sotapanna because only a sotapanna knows he will not take birth again in Lower realms !

no... I think I remember a story where bimbisara have 4 or 3 wish in which one wish is to meet buddha face to face so he reborn during buddhas time, 2nd wish is learn the teaching and 3rd wish is attain fruit, 4th wish is he did some good karma so he will always be born in human or deva world without attaining sotapanna ... he made this wish long back and it was granted... so he knew he wont be born in lower world .. I maybe wrong because my memory always fails these days.. I dont know if its bimbisara or buddhas father (another king)

Good posting, and thanks for the information and background

Sadhu!

[DooDoot]

I think u have no idea about scripture...

wow - more confused than ever

how these beings — who were endowed with bad conduct of body, speech & mind, who reviled noble ones, held wrong views and undertook actions under the influence of wrong views — with the break-up of the body, after death, have re-appeared in the animal womb.