The nature of human is evil?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
form
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The nature of human is evil?

Post by form »

Is it correct to say the Buddha think so? Because greed, hatred and delusion are evils.
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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: The nature of human is evil?

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

Not the way I see it. If our nature was only evil Buddha would not have given all the ways to be good & not evil.

However, if one never or rarely purifies the mind or acts, thinks or speaks goodness, then the power of evil will dominate - to our peril.
Last edited by Nicholas Weeks on Mon May 31, 2021 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dhamma is against the stream of common thought, deep, subtle, difficult, delicate, unseen by passion’s slaves cloaked in the murk of ignorance. Vipassī Buddha
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Re: The nature of human is evil?

Post by befriend »

Greed hatred and delusion aren't our nature because we feel better when we don't express them they are unnatural in a way I would say generosity/renunciation love and awareness would be more inherent to us because those three qualities arise in mindfulness meditation or you could say when we're being "ourselves".
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: The nature of human is evil?

Post by Lucas Oliveira »

Image
Wonder of wonders! Intrinsically all living beings are Buddhas, endowed with wisdom and virtue, but because men's minds have become inverted through delusive thinking they fail to perceive this.

Gautama Buddha
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cappuccino
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Re: The nature of human is evil?

Post by cappuccino »

If you were born human, you know the following…

You were not born in heaven

Nor any destination less than human

Hence you were not evil
Last edited by cappuccino on Mon May 31, 2021 6:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: The nature of human is evil?

Post by Ceisiwr »

Lucas Oliveira wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 4:08 pm Image
Wonder of wonders! Intrinsically all living beings are Buddhas, endowed with wisdom and virtue, but because men's minds have become inverted through delusive thinking they fail to perceive this.

Gautama Buddha
:namaste:
Isn't that Mahāyāna?
"Besides the two categories of paramattha (the real) and paññatti (concept), a third category does not exist. One who is skilful in these two categories does not tremble in the face of other teachings."

Abhidhammāvatāra by Ven. Buddhadatta
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Aloka
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Re: The nature of human is evil?

Post by Aloka »

Isn't that Mahāyāna?
Yes, only sometimes it says "potentially" rather than "intrinsically".

Its worth looking at the "Fake Buddha Quotes" website occasionally, because unfortunately false quotes attributed to the Buddha are all over the internet these days.

https://fakebuddhaquotes.com/all-fake-buddha-quotes/


.
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Re: The nature of human is evil?

Post by mjaviem »

Lucas Oliveira wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 4:08 pm
...Intrinsically all living beings are Buddhas...
:o
Namo Tassa Bhagavato Arahato Sammā Sambuddhassa
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Re: The nature of human is evil?

Post by mjaviem »

form wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 1:29 pm ...
I think the path leads from evil going through wholesome to beyond good and evil. What do you mean by 'nature'? Are you talking about conventions?
Namo Tassa Bhagavato Arahato Sammā Sambuddhassa
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Re: The nature of human is evil?

Post by dharmacorps »

The Buddha did not claim anywhere I have ever heard that human nature is evil. This is misrepresenting the Buddha and the Dhamma to say that. To teach that would undermine the entire purpose of his teaching and enlightenment.

The Buddha didn't get involved in such ham-fisted arguments. He described the human mind as one that is highly variable, so variable that you can't really say much in terms of generalities about it. You can, however, train it in a "good" direction, which is the dhamma. Thats what he concerned himself with, thankfully.
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Re: The nature of human is evil?

Post by pegembara »

form wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 1:29 pm Is it correct to say the Buddha think so? Because greed, hatred and delusion are evils.
I think it is indisputable that greed, hatred, and delusion are the causes of suffering - not "evil".
The 4 Noble Truths mentioned nothing about the inherent nature of humans as "good or evil".
Only this which should be obvious in our daily interactions-
"Then the thought occurred to me, 'This Dhamma that I have attained is deep, hard to see, hard to realize, peaceful, refined, beyond the scope of conjecture, subtle, to-be-experienced by the wise. [3] But this generation delights in attachment, is excited by attachment, enjoys attachment. For a generation delighting in attachment, excited by attachment, enjoying attachment, this/that conditionality & dependent co-arising are hard to see. This state, too, is hard to see: the resolution of all fabrications, the relinquishment of all acquisitions, the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding. And if I were to teach the Dhamma and others would not understand me, that would be tiresome for me, troublesome for me.'

"Then, having understood Brahma's invitation, out of compassion for beings, I surveyed the world with the eye of an Awakened One. As I did so, I saw beings with little dust in their eyes and those with much, those with keen faculties and those with dull, those with good attributes and those with bad, those easy to teach and those hard, some of them seeing disgrace & danger in the other world. Just as in a pond of blue or red or white lotuses, some lotuses — born & growing in the water — might flourish while immersed in the water, without rising up from the water; some might stand at an even level with the water; while some might rise up from the water and stand without being smeared by the water — so too, surveying the world with the eye of an Awakened One, I saw beings with little dust in their eyes and those with much, those with keen faculties and those with dull, those with good attributes and those with bad, those easy to teach and those hard, some of them seeing disgrace & danger in the other world.
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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Re: The nature of human is evil?

Post by Bundokji »

The term evil draws its meaning from the ability to feel pain and inflect it on others who are believed to be capable of experiencing it. Evidently, humans do not only experience pain, but also pleasure and neutral feeling. There is also an overlap between the biological being and worldly truth of without being perfectly correlative. Not every true statement can be reduced to what feels good, nor it is separate from it. Morality in general is negotiating the interactions between truth and feeling in time. This act of negotiating is how we function and how we make value judgements.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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Re: The nature of human is evil?

Post by DooDoot »

form wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 1:29 pm Is it correct to say the Buddha think so? Because greed, hatred and delusion are evils.
Buddha said evil exists in the animal, hungry ghost & hell births
Bhikkhus, a god, a human or any other good state would not be evident from actions born of greed, hate and delusion.

Yet, bhikkhus, from actions born of greed, hate and delusion a hellish being, an animal birth a ghostly birth or some other bad state would be evident.

AN 6.39
Again:
The fire of lust burns mortals
Infatuated by sensual pleasures;
The fire of hate burns malevolent people
Who kill other living beings;

The fire of delusion burns the bewildered,
Ignorant of the Noble One’s Dhamma.
Being unaware of these three fires,
Mankind delights in personal existence.

Unfree from the bonds of Māra
They swell the ranks of hell,
Existence in the animal realm,
Asura-demons and the sphere of ghosts.

https://suttacentral.net/iti93/en/ireland
The OP appears to be confusing Christianity for Buddhism. The common saying for evil of "its only human" comes from Christianity.
Romans 7:5
For when we lived according to our human nature, the sinful desires stirred up by the Law were at work in our bodies, and all we did ended in death.

Romans 7:18
I know that good does not live in me—that is, in my human nature. For even though the desire to do good is in me, I am not able to do it.

Romans 7:25
Thanks be to God, who does this through our Lord Jesus Christ! This, then, is my condition: on my own I can serve God's law only with my mind, while my human nature serves the law of sin.

Romans 8:3
What the Law could not do, because human nature was weak, God did. He condemned sin in human nature by sending his own Son, who came with a nature like our sinful nature, to do away with sin.

Romans 8:4
God did this so that the righteous demands of the Law might be fully satisfied in us who live according to the Spirit, and not according to human nature.

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearc ... =52&end=52
In Buddhism, the human state is the state of goodness & wisdom. The word "human" ("manussa") in Buddhism means "high minded".
Sooner, I say, would that blind turtle, coming to the surface once every hundred years, insert its neck into that yoke with a single hole than the fool who has gone once to the nether world would regain the human state. For what reason? Because here, bhikkhus, there is no conduct guided by the Dhamma, no righteous conduct, no wholesome activity, no meritorious activity. Here there prevails mutual devouring, the devouring of the weak. For what reason? Because, bhikkhus, they have not seen the Four Noble Truths. What four? The noble truth of suffering … the noble truth of the way leading to the cessation of suffering.

https://suttacentral.net/sn56.47/en/bodhi
Last edited by DooDoot on Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: The nature of human is evil?

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

DooDoot wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:19 am
The OP appears to be confusing Christianity for Buddhism. The common saying for evil of "its only human" comes from Christianity.
Long before Xtianity, around 260 BC, these Chinese Sages debated human nature:
By teaching the doctrine of the original evil nature of man and the necessity for its control through law and rules of propriety, Hsün Tzu stood diametrically opposed to Mencius whose doctrine professed the original goodness of human nature and moral intuition as the source of political and social development.
From Source Book in Chinese Philosophy by Wing-Tsit Chan
Dhamma is against the stream of common thought, deep, subtle, difficult, delicate, unseen by passion’s slaves cloaked in the murk of ignorance. Vipassī Buddha
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DooDoot
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Re: The nature of human is evil?

Post by DooDoot »

Nicholas Weeks wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:31 am Long before Xtianity, around 260 BC, these Chinese Sages debated human nature:
Most posters here are not Chinese nor know anything about Chinese philosophy. The common Western saying: "I'm/its only human,” obviously does not come from China.

:focus:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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