What is the kamma result of a monk who eats after noon time?

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JC938
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What is the kamma result of a monk who eats after noon time?

Post by JC938 »

Hi,

As the title.

Thank you.
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SDC
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Re: What is the kamma result of a monk who eats after noon time?

Post by SDC »

Since eating outside the proper time is an offense entailing confession, I imagine eventually it could lead to suspension. Perhaps expulsion? Here’s the rule: https://suttacentral.net/pli-tv-bu-vb-pc37/en/brahmali

Additionally:

Weight gain. Sluggishness. Undeveloped in restraint.

I’m sure an unfortunate “next state” is possible, but that would have more to do with what was preventing the development of discipline to begin with. The fact that a monk couldn’t follow the rule is simply a symptom of the broader hold of sense desire and craving for pleasant feeling.

Ultimately it is not possible to predict the exact result. Too many factors, not to mention the warning from the Buddha that the workings of kamma are essentially unknowable.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
SarathW
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Re: What is the kamma result of a monk who eats after noon time?

Post by SarathW »

I imagine eventually it could lead to suspension. Perhaps expulsion?
I don't think so.
Nowadays the majority of monks eat in the afternoon.
I heard this from a person who stayed with monks.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
BrokenBones
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Re: What is the kamma result of a monk who eats after noon time?

Post by BrokenBones »

SarathW wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:47 pm
I imagine eventually it could lead to suspension. Perhaps expulsion?
I don't think so.
Nowadays the majority of monks eat in the afternoon.
I heard this from a person who stayed with monks.
'Majority'?

You heard this from a person who stayed with monks?

You seem to hear a lot of defamatory things from other people but never provide evidence.

I've never encountered a monk eating after midday... although I'm sure there are cases when that does happen; either out of greed or quite acceptably because of illness.
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Dhammanando
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Re: What is the kamma result of a monk who eats after noon time?

Post by Dhammanando »

There's a spectrum of possibilities.

At the innocuous end of the spectrum, if the rule is transgressed by mistake (i.e., a bhikkhu either misjudges the time or else consumes a food item during the vikāla mistakenly believing it to be an allowable medicine) then there wouldn't be any kammic consequence. However, he would still be obliged to confess an offence, for the rule is in the acittaka class, meaning that the bhikkhu's state of mind is treated as irrelevant to the question of his culpability.

At the reprehensible end of the spectrum, if the rule is transgressed by a bhikkhu who completely lacks any respect for the training, then the consequences could be grave, not so much because of the vikāla eating itself, but because of the lack of respect that leads to it.
“It is impossible, bhante, that a bhikkhu who lacks reverence for the Teacher could have reverence for the Dhamma. The bhikkhu who lacks reverence for the Teacher also lacks reverence for the Dhamma.

“It is impossible, bhante, that a bhikkhu who lacks reverence for the Teacher and the Dhamma could have reverence for the Saṅgha. The bhikkhu who lacks reverence for the Teacher and the Dhamma also lacks reverence for the Saṅgha.

“It is impossible, bhante, that a bhikkhu who lacks reverence for the Teacher, the Dhamma, and the Saṅgha could have reverence for the training. The bhikkhu who lacks reverence for the Teacher, the Dhamma and the Saṅgha also lacks reverence for the training.
(AN 7.70)

Nirayaṁ gacchati dummedho,
na ca sikkhāya gāravo.


He goes to hell, the man weak in wisdom
Who lacks reverence for the training.
(Vin. v. 160)
In between these two extremes there's the bhikkhu who is respectful of much of the bhikkhu's training but not of this particular rule. In commentarial narratives it seems to be common for such to be reborn as pretas of the kind encountered by Ven. Mahamoggallāna in the Vinaya's account of the fourth pārājika rule.

https://suttacentral.net/pli-tv-bu-vb-pj4/en/brahmali
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
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DooDoot
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Re: What is the kamma result of a monk who eats after noon time?

Post by DooDoot »

There are animals that feed on dung.
Santi, bhikkhave, tiracchānagatā pāṇā gūthabhakkhā.

When they catch a whiff of dung they run to it, thinking,
Te dūratova gūthagandhaṁ ghāyitvā dhāvanti:

‘There we’ll eat! There we’ll eat!’
‘ettha bhuñjissāma, ettha bhuñjissāmā’ti.

It’s like when brahmins smell a burnt offering, they run to it, thinking,
Seyyathāpi nāma brāhmaṇā āhutigandhena dhāvanti:

‘There we’ll eat! There we’ll eat!’
‘ettha bhuñjissāma, ettha bhuñjissāmā’ti;

In the same way, there are animals that feed on dung.
evameva kho, bhikkhave, santi tiracchānagatā pāṇā gūthabhakkhā,

When they catch a whiff of dung they run to it, thinking,
te dūratova gūthagandhaṁ ghāyitvā dhāvanti:

‘There we’ll eat! There we’ll eat!’
‘ettha bhuñjissāma, ettha bhuñjissāmā’ti.

And what animals feed on dung?
Katame ca, bhikkhave, tiracchānagatā pāṇā gūthabhakkhā?

Chickens, pigs, dogs, jackals and various others.
Kukkuṭā sūkarā soṇā siṅgālā, ye vā panaññepi keci tiracchānagatā pāṇā gūthabhakkhā.

A fool who used to be a glutton here and did bad deeds here, after death is reborn in the company of those sentient beings who feed on dung.

Sa kho so, bhikkhave, bālo idha pubbe rasādo idha pāpāni kammāni karitvā kāyassa bhedā paraṁ maraṇā tesaṁ sattānaṁ sahabyataṁ upapajjati ye te sattā gūthabhakkhā

https://suttacentral.net/mn129/en/sujato
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
SarathW
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Re: What is the kamma result of a monk who eats after noon time?

Post by SarathW »

BrokenBones wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:54 pm
SarathW wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:47 pm
I imagine eventually it could lead to suspension. Perhaps expulsion?
I don't think so.
Nowadays the majority of monks eat in the afternoon.
I heard this from a person who stayed with monks.
'Majority'?

You heard this from a person who stayed with monks?

You seem to hear a lot of defamatory things from other people but never provide evidence.

I've never encountered a monk eating after midday... although I'm sure there are cases when that does happen; either out of greed or quite acceptably because of illness.
If I say that many monks use money is that defamatory?
Just read the Broken Buddha, if you like to know about the rogue monks.
There are many monks who observe the Vinaya too.
I am not sure using money is a bigger offence than eating in wrong time.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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