Atman in Buddhism? (Nikaya)

[Zenny]

...

With metta.

Of course you control its growth,that's what you breathe for!
Spirit and breathe were synonymous in all spiritual traditions originally. You have turned the human into a slave of your reified concept of 5 aggregates. Humans have volition,that's obvious.
You think your body grows on its own because of its surroundings or because you use your volition to breathe and eat?
This is just ludicrous!

Please see slight amendment in my previous post perhaps for better clarification. Regardless, volition too is the fourth of five aggregates. If you practice watching your breath and holding it in then you will see that the volition to breathe arises and presents itself to you on several occasions. You can't stop the process of seeing as such or stop yourself from thinking, for example. The body, feeling and thoughts are autonomous and do not require you willing them or otherwise to exist. The self can exist only because the five aggregates are present first and thus the sense of self comes second. It is this misunderstanding that the self comes first that is not in accordance to how nature works which create this mass of suffering. Thus, the role of the individual is to attend to the wholesome intention that arises and be at it. Our role is of an attendance, not a master

Whether anyone refuses to see it or not, it is always there within experience to be seen. One who sees the Buddha sees the Dhamma and one who sees the Dhamma sees Paticcasamuppāda.

Who or what is attending? How does attending differ from volition? Further Contradictions

[dicsoncandra]

Of course you control its growth,that's what you breathe for!
Spirit and breathe were synonymous in all spiritual traditions originally. You have turned the human into a slave of your reified concept of 5 aggregates. Humans have volition,that's obvious.
You think your body grows on its own because of its surroundings or because you use your volition to breathe and eat?
This is just ludicrous!

Please see slight amendment in my previous post perhaps for better clarification. Regardless, volition too is the fourth of five aggregates. If you practice watching your breath and holding it in then you will see that the volition to breathe arises and presents itself to you on several occasions. You can't stop the process of seeing as such or stop yourself from thinking, for example. The body, feeling and thoughts are autonomous and do not require you to exist. The self can exist only because the five aggregates are present first and thus the sense of self comes second. It is this misunderstanding that the self comes first that is not in accordance to how nature works which create this mass of suffering.

Impossible. Volition and breathing etc are all from my will,my expression. You don't stop them because that is your will. You can't stop your will,only adjust it.
You can't invent five aggregates and say they are autonomous.
So your suggesting our volition is also autonomous! From ourself? ? That's a contradiction!
Surely you can see this.

How funny, you made up your own flawed rethorics and proceeded to 'disprove' it.
Everything is due to will? Not what the Buddha taught.
You can't control your own will? That's a contradiction in terms.
It is because you don't invent the five aggregates that you don't own them.
Volition is just a phenomena that arises and ceases in accordance to paticcasamuppāda as I repeated over and over.
All conditioned phenomena are impermanent. All phenomena (conditioned or unconditioned which is Nibbana) is not-self.
I debunked your false rhetoric, you refuse to see it.

Whether you refuse to see it or not, it is always there within experience to be seen.

One who sees the Buddha sees the Dhamma and one who sees the Dhamma sees Paticcasamuppāda.

[dicsoncandra]

Of course you control its growth,that's what you breathe for!
Spirit and breathe were synonymous in all spiritual traditions originally. You have turned the human into a slave of your reified concept of 5 aggregates. Humans have volition,that's obvious.
You think your body grows on its own because of its surroundings or because you use your volition to breathe and eat?
This is just ludicrous!

Please see slight amendment in my previous post perhaps for better clarification. Regardless, volition too is the fourth of five aggregates. If you practice watching your breath and holding it in then you will see that the volition to breathe arises and presents itself to you on several occasions. You can't stop the process of seeing as such or stop yourself from thinking, for example. The body, feeling and thoughts are autonomous and do not require you willing them or otherwise to exist. The self can exist only because the five aggregates are present first and thus the sense of self comes second. It is this misunderstanding that the self comes first that is not in accordance to how nature works which create this mass of suffering. Thus, the role of the individual is to attend to the wholesome intention that arises and be at it. Our role is of an attendance, not a master

Whether anyone refuses to see it or not, it is always there within experience to be seen. One who sees the Buddha sees the Dhamma and one who sees the Dhamma sees Paticcasamuppāda.

Who or what is attending? How does attending differ from volition? Further Contradictions

Read Meanings by Ajahn Nyanamoli. Perception perceives, feeling feels and so on. Read the Sutta on The All, read Bahiya Sutta

[Zenny]

Please see slight amendment in my previous post perhaps for better clarification. Regardless, volition too is the fourth of five aggregates. If you practice watching your breath and holding it in then you will see that the volition to breathe arises and presents itself to you on several occasions. You can't stop the process of seeing as such or stop yourself from thinking, for example. The body, feeling and thoughts are autonomous and do not require you to exist. The self can exist only because the five aggregates are present first and thus the sense of self comes second. It is this misunderstanding that the self comes first that is not in accordance to how nature works which create this mass of suffering.

Impossible. Volition and breathing etc are all from my will,my expression. You don't stop them because that is your will. You can't stop your will,only adjust it.
You can't invent five aggregates and say they are autonomous.
So your suggesting our volition is also autonomous! From ourself? ? That's a contradiction!
Surely you can see this.

How funny, you made up your own flawed rethorics and proceeded to 'disprove' it.
Everything is due to will? Not what the Buddha taught.
You can't control your own will? That's a contradiction in terms.
It is because you don't invent the five aggregates that you don't own them.
Volition is just a phenomena that arises and ceases in accordance to paticcasamuppāda as I repeated over and over.
All conditioned phenomena are impermanent. All phenomena (conditioned or unconditioned which is Nibbana) is not-self.
I debunked your false rhetoric, you refuse to see it.

Whether you refuse to see it or not, it is always there within experience to be seen.

One who sees the Buddha sees the Dhamma and one who sees the Dhamma sees Paticcasamuppāda.

Your like a parrot,just repeating dogma.
I said you don't stop your will. You adjust it. Your will is your control. Basic language!
And you could not answer the simple what is attending question.
Another sophist.

[Zenny]

Please see slight amendment in my previous post perhaps for better clarification. Regardless, volition too is the fourth of five aggregates. If you practice watching your breath and holding it in then you will see that the volition to breathe arises and presents itself to you on several occasions. You can't stop the process of seeing as such or stop yourself from thinking, for example. The body, feeling and thoughts are autonomous and do not require you willing them or otherwise to exist. The self can exist only because the five aggregates are present first and thus the sense of self comes second. It is this misunderstanding that the self comes first that is not in accordance to how nature works which create this mass of suffering. Thus, the role of the individual is to attend to the wholesome intention that arises and be at it. Our role is of an attendance, not a master

Whether anyone refuses to see it or not, it is always there within experience to be seen. One who sees the Buddha sees the Dhamma and one who sees the Dhamma sees Paticcasamuppāda.

Who or what is attending? How does attending differ from volition? Further Contradictions

Read Meanings by Ajahn Nyanamoli. Perception perceives, feeling feels and so on. Read the Sutta on The All, read Bahiya Sutta

Read these sophistic dialectic propoganda? No thanks.
If folks can't even understand the existence of will and self then their minds are clouded.

[dicsoncandra]

Impossible. Volition and breathing etc are all from my will,my expression. You don't stop them because that is your will. You can't stop your will,only adjust it.
You can't invent five aggregates and say they are autonomous.
So your suggesting our volition is also autonomous! From ourself? ? That's a contradiction!
Surely you can see this.

How funny, you made up your own flawed rethorics and proceeded to 'disprove' it.
Everything is due to will? Not what the Buddha taught.
You can't control your own will? That's a contradiction in terms.
It is because you don't invent the five aggregates that you don't own them.
Volition is just a phenomena that arises and ceases in accordance to paticcasamuppāda as I repeated over and over.
All conditioned phenomena are impermanent. All phenomena (conditioned or unconditioned which is Nibbana) is not-self.
I debunked your false rhetoric, you refuse to see it.

Whether you refuse to see it or not, it is always there within experience to be seen.

One who sees the Buddha sees the Dhamma and one who sees the Dhamma sees Paticcasamuppāda.

Your like a parrot,just repeating dogma.
I said you don't stop your will. You adjust it. Your will is your control. Basic language!
And you could not answer the simple what is attending question.
Another sophist.

Sure, all the best. Why can't you stop your will? You're not even answering the question. It's a contraditction in terms. Attending means letting go of attachment, aversion and delusion when feeling feels, perceiving perceives and so on as i wrote

[dicsoncandra]

Who or what is attending? How does attending differ from volition? Further Contradictions

Read Meanings by Ajahn Nyanamoli. Perception perceives, feeling feels and so on. Read the Sutta on The All, read Bahiya Sutta

Read these sophistic dialectic propoganda? No thanks.
If folks can't even understand the existence of will and self then their minds are clouded.

It's not anyone else's loss anyway. What is it that is so insistent on the existence of will anf self if not that very upādāna conditioned upon craving, misperception, ignorance and so on? Not gaining real knowledge that is uncomfortable to read is one's own loss

[Zenny]

How funny, you made up your own flawed rethorics and proceeded to 'disprove' it.
Everything is due to will? Not what the Buddha taught.
You can't control your own will? That's a contradiction in terms.
It is because you don't invent the five aggregates that you don't own them.
Volition is just a phenomena that arises and ceases in accordance to paticcasamuppāda as I repeated over and over.
All conditioned phenomena are impermanent. All phenomena (conditioned or unconditioned which is Nibbana) is not-self.
I debunked your false rhetoric, you refuse to see it.

Whether you refuse to see it or not, it is always there within experience to be seen.

One who sees the Buddha sees the Dhamma and one who sees the Dhamma sees Paticcasamuppāda.

Your like a parrot,just repeating dogma.
I said you don't stop your will. You adjust it. Your will is your control. Basic language!
And you could not answer the simple what is attending question.
Another sophist.

Sure, all the best. Why can't you stop your will? You're not even answering the question. It's a contraditction in terms. Attending means letting go of attachment, aversion and delusion when feeling feels, perceiving perceives and so on as i wrote

Because the will is what I am. Its like asking can you stop yourself existing? Well,my will wants to will,it doesn't want to not will.
So does attending need will? And who is attending?
You will be be unable to answer these questions as you refute the five aggregates and no self as soon as you answer.
No buddhist can refute these questions,ever.

[dicsoncandra]

Also, suggest to watch the video on fault-finding mind. I have clearly answered and clarified with the follow up and you ignored my previous comment regarding your false rhetorics.

[Zenny]

Read Meanings by Ajahn Nyanamoli. Perception perceives, feeling feels and so on. Read the Sutta on The All, read Bahiya Sutta

Read these sophistic dialectic propoganda? No thanks.
If folks can't even understand the existence of will and self then their minds are clouded.

It's not anyone else's loss anyway. What is it that is so insistent on the existence of will anf self if not that very upādāna conditioned upon craving, misperception, ignorance and so on? Not gaining real knowledge that is uncomfortable to read is one's own loss

Not knowledge,but propoganda and delusion.

[Zenny]

Also, suggest to watch the video on fault-finding mind. I have clearly answered and clarified with the follow up and you ignored my previous comment regarding your false rhetorics.

You can't even answer what or how you attend.

[dicsoncandra]

Your like a parrot,just repeating dogma.
I said you don't stop your will. You adjust it. Your will is your control. Basic language!
And you could not answer the simple what is attending question.
Another sophist.

Sure, all the best. Why can't you stop your will? You're not even answering the question. It's a contraditction in terms. Attending means letting go of attachment, aversion and delusion when feeling feels, perceiving perceives and so on as i wrote

Because the will is what I am. Its like asking can you stop yourself existing? Well,my will wants to will,it doesn't want to not will.
So does attending need will? And who is attending?
You will be be unable to answer these questions as you refute the five aggregates and no self as soon as you answer.
No buddhist can refute these questions,ever.

Except I just did multiple times but you refuse to see.
Key words: upādāna, pañcupādānakkhandā and paticcasamuppāda

[dicsoncandra]

Also, suggest to watch the video on fault-finding mind. I have clearly answered and clarified with the follow up and you ignored my previous comment regarding your false rhetorics.

You can't even answer what or how you attend.

Paticcasamuppāda in relation to the five aggregates. I have repeated this. Not wasting my time. If you're genuine to learn another's viewpoint before refuting it then at least do some research then only come back

[Zenny]

Sure, all the best. Why can't you stop your will? You're not even answering the question. It's a contraditction in terms. Attending means letting go of attachment, aversion and delusion when feeling feels, perceiving perceives and so on as i wrote

Because the will is what I am. Its like asking can you stop yourself existing? Well,my will wants to will,it doesn't want to not will.
So does attending need will? And who is attending?
You will be be unable to answer these questions as you refute the five aggregates and no self as soon as you answer.
No buddhist can refute these questions,ever.

Except I just did multiple times but you refuse to see.
Key words: upādāna, pañcupādānakkhandā and paticcasamuppāda

No you didn't. What is attending and how?
Use your own English words. Let's see this truth you claim???

[Zenny]

Also, suggest to watch the video on fault-finding mind. I have clearly answered and clarified with the follow up and you ignored my previous comment regarding your false rhetorics.

You can't even answer what or how you attend.

Paticcasamuppāda in relation to the five aggregates. I have repeated this. Not wasting my time. If you're genuine to learn another's viewpoint before refuting it then at least do some research then only come back

In English,explain your "truth"?
Don't run off because your scared.