I don’t reject the Abhidamma. However, I don’t see how the following is necessarily useful and/or why I should reference it such that I become better acquainted with the Buddha’s actual words.
Ceisiwr wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:08 am
1.1.1. The “skilful” triad
Phenomena that are skilful.
Phenomena that are unskilful.
Phenomena that are undesignated.
1.1.2. The “feelings” triad
Phenomena associated with pleasant feelings.
Phenomena associated with painful feelings.
Phenomena associated with neutral feelings.
1.1.3. The “result” triad
Phenomena that are results.
Phenomena that are liable to be affected by results.
Phenomena that are neither results nor liable to be affected by results.
1.1.4. The “what has been grasped” triad
Phenomena that have been grasped and are liable to be affected by grasping.
Phenomena that have not been grasped but are liable to be affected by grasping.
Phenomena that have neither been grasped nor are liable to be affected by grasping.
1.1.5. The “defiled” triad
Phenomena that are defiled and are liable to be affected by defilement.
Phenomena that are not defiled but are liable to be affected by defilement.
Phenomena that are neither defiled nor are liable to be affected by defilement.
1.1.6. The “initial application of mind” triad
Phenomena that are with initial and sustained application.
Phenomena that are without initial and with only sustained application.
Phenomena that are with neither initial nor sustained application.
1.1.7. The “rapture” triad
Phenomena that are imbued with rapture.
Phenomena that are imbued with pleasure.
Phenomena that are imbued with equanimity.
1.1.8. Triad to be abandoned by seeing
Phenomena to be abandoned by seeing.
Phenomena to be abandoned by developing.
Phenomena to be abandoned neither by seeing nor by developing.
This is the first chapter of the Dhammasaṅgaṇī. It’s hardly verbose. So far it’s much the same as what we find in DN 33 & DN 34.
This is a very long list. I would like to ask Ceisiwr if he has put this list to memory? Also, what advantage do I have by “knowing” this list? And to what suttas am I better equipped to talk about having read this list? And why?
Also, an earlier quote by Ceisiwr revealed that those who know the Abhidamma are “the true dhamma preachers” (to paraphrase).
I find statements like these akin to the Bible where John says that all verses of the Bible are breathed in by God. Which is an appeal to Authority fallacy.
I find the same statement akin to the Mahayana dogma that state (because of their lofty goals) the original teachings of the Buddha must be reinterpreted - or that (in fact) the Mahayanist has already reinterpreted the early dhamma and anyone who preaches Hinayana is inferior and heretical.
But the Abhidamma insist their view is superior. Am I to believe a list like the one you’ve provided is the basis for their claims to “superior understanding”?
Whatever the case, I’ve started reading the Abhidamma and all I find are these lists. And moreover, the translator has found them so excessively cumbersome that the majority of these lists read:
“As in 46a with ‘skillful’ instead of ‘unskillful’”
And I think Ceisiwr knows what I mean. This kind of “refer to the earlier passage which is exactly the same except that one word is different “.
We already find enough of that kind of repetition in the suttas.
The examples of repetition in the Abhidamma approach absurdity and I disagree the idea that you have anything to gain from memorizing such lists. Nor is it readily apparent that they serve any purpose.
They certainly don’t convey much of a message. They’re just “lists”.