Animal born without notion of self !

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asahi
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Animal born without notion of self !

Post by asahi »

Any where in the suttas the Buddha said animals are born intact with self ?

:thanks:
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SarathW
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Re: Animal born without notion of self !

Post by SarathW »

Do you mean whether Buddha said animal have soul?
Any way animal realm is part of the 31 planes of existence.
Basically which means they also have the five aggregate as human.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dha ... /loka.html
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asahi
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Re: Animal born without notion of self !

Post by asahi »

SarathW wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:54 am Do you mean whether Buddha said animal have soul?
I dont know , you tell me what is soul ?
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Animal born without notion of self !

Post by Ceisiwr »

He doesn’t.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
asahi
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Re: Animal born without notion of self !

Post by asahi »

Ceisiwr wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:09 amHe doesn’t.
Doesnt what ?
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Animal born without notion of self !

Post by Ceisiwr »

asahi wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:11 am
Ceisiwr wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:09 amHe doesn’t.
Doesnt what ?
What you just asked in your OP.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
asahi
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Re: Animal born without notion of self !

Post by asahi »

Oh i see , Ceisiwr said animals doesnt have a notion of self . Anyone else knows without notion of self how dependent origination of animals happens ?
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SarathW
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Re: Animal born without notion of self !

Post by SarathW »

asahi wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:35 am Oh i see , Ceisiwr said animals doesnt have a notion of self . Anyone else knows without notion of self how dependent origination of animals happens ?
It is incorrect to say that animals do not have a self view.
They also have selfview same as human including Deva and Brahama.
Only the Abrahamic religion based science think that animal do not have a self view.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Animal born without notion of self !

Post by Ceisiwr »

asahi wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:35 am Oh i see , Ceisiwr said animals doesnt have a notion of self . Anyone else knows without notion of self how dependent origination of animals happens ?
That isn’t what I said.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
asahi
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Re: Animal born without notion of self !

Post by asahi »

SarathW wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:40 am
It is incorrect to say that animals do not have a self view.
I wonder if you could provide some suttas references that assert animals does have self view .
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SarathW
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Re: Animal born without notion of self !

Post by SarathW »

asahi wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:26 am
SarathW wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:40 am
It is incorrect to say that animals do not have a self view.
I wonder if you could provide some suttas references that assert animals does have self view .
As I mentioned that animals are part of the sentient world (31 planes of existence).
Which means they all have selfview.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
chownah
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Re: Animal born without notion of self !

Post by chownah »

I think that the buddha said that human babies when born do not have a notion of self but that they have the latent tendency to develop that notion.....I don't know what sutta that is....maybe someone knows of it.....maybe when I have time I will look for it.
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asahi
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Re: Animal born without notion of self !

Post by asahi »

SarathW wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:27 am As I mentioned that animals are part of the sentient world (31 planes of existence).
Which means they all have selfview.
I know what you said but rather i want to know what Buddha said with reference . You appears to be saying your words is equivalent to what Buddha said .
And i am not asking about human baby incase you or others missed my point .
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mjaviem
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Re: Animal born without notion of self !

Post by mjaviem »

Animals must have a self view. At least many of them. You can tell by seeing their territorial behavior.

Edit: and how they protect their offspring.
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dharmacorps
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Re: Animal born without notion of self !

Post by dharmacorps »

There is no sutta addressing self-view in animals (prove me wrong, but I can think of nothing in the Suttas). That is likely because animals don't have the capacity to be aware of a self-view. That doesn't mean they don't have a relative sense of self. This is one of many reasons why animals cannot do much to spiritually progress-- the human realm is better.
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