How to see sensual pleasures as thron or burning coal?

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confusedlayman
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How to see sensual pleasures as thron or burning coal?

Post by confusedlayman »

Dont tell me to imagine that hearing music = falling in to volcono... because it is not...

How to really see dangers in sensual pleasures that lead to uprooting the greed for sensual pleasures rather than imagining them to be bad and teaching brain in that way?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Re: How to see sensual pleasures as thron or burning coal?

Post by Sam Vara »

confusedlayman wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:59 pm Dont tell me to imagine that hearing music = falling in to volcono... because it is not...

How to really see dangers in sensual pleasures that lead to uprooting the greed for sensual pleasures rather than imagining them to be bad and teaching brain in that way?
Far scarier than the metaphor is the reality: a lifetime of seeking pleasures which fade quickly and never really live up to the expectation. See them as they really are, examine them and ask how satisfactory they are. See yourself as being in thrall to them, wasting your time trying to get them.

Then you will be able to understand why they might be described as thorns or hot coals.
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Re: How to see sensual pleasures as thron or burning coal?

Post by DooDoot »

Do a silent 10 day retreat and experience how from day 3 any addictions to sensual pleasures will rise up and punish your mind.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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mjaviem
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Re: How to see sensual pleasures as thron or burning coal?

Post by mjaviem »

confusedlayman wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:59 pm Dont tell me to imagine that hearing music = falling in to volcono... because it is not...

How to really see dangers in sensual pleasures that lead to uprooting the greed for sensual pleasures rather than imagining them to be bad and teaching brain in that way?
Because in order for you to have nice things and pleasant experiences you have to work under harsh conditions. Sometimes the fruit of your work is not enough to acquire those nice things and pleasant experiences (as when you have unexpected expenditures). And when you do acquire them you need to protect them from breaking up and from thieves so they in fact become a source of stress. You sometimes get mean to keep them and argue or even quarrel with others. The more powerful you are the more harm you do and just because of having and keeping them. They entice you to be mean. And you are not free of becoming the thief yourself when you really want something you can't have. There are passion crimes when someone can't have someone's love. You lie, you have sexual misconduct, unwholesome thoughts, all because of sensual pleasures.

Music is no big deal as you say. But tell us, do you think it is possible to do stupid things on account of listening pleasant music? I think it is possible, even as simply as missing the opportunity of being generous and do good for merely listening to a few good songs.
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Re: How to see sensual pleasures as thron or burning coal?

Post by pegembara »

DooDoot wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:00 am Do a silent 10 day retreat and experience how from day 3 any addictions to sensual pleasures will rise up and punish your mind.
:goodpost:

You have got to stop scratching the itch even though it gives you "pleasure".
You cannot get permanent satisfaction - that's the problem. So you seek delight here, there and everywhere all the time. A victim of our senses.
And I am not referring to drug or alcohol addiction.
"In the same way, Magandiya, sensual pleasures in the past were painful to the touch, very hot & scorching; sensual pleasures in the future will be painful to the touch, very hot & scorching; sensual pleasures at present are painful to the touch, very hot & scorching; but when beings are not free from passion for sensual pleasures — devoured by sensual craving, burning with sensual fever — their faculties are impaired, which is why, even though sensual pleasures are actually painful to the touch, they have the skewed perception of 'pleasant.'

"Now suppose that there was a leper covered with sores & infections, devoured by worms, picking the scabs off the openings of his wounds with his nails, cauterizing his body over a pit of glowing embers. The more he cauterized his body over the pit of glowing embers, the more disgusting, foul-smelling, & putrid the openings of his wounds would become, and yet he would feel a modicum of enjoyment & satisfaction because of the itchiness of his wounds. In the same way, beings not free from passion for sensual pleasures — devoured by sensual craving, burning with sensual fever — indulge in sensual pleasures. The more they indulge in sensual pleasures, the more their sensual craving increases and the more they burn with sensual fever, and yet they feel a modicum of enjoyment & satisfaction dependent on the five strings of sensuality.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
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Re: How to see sensual pleasures as thron or burning coal?

Post by asahi »

confusedlayman wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:59 pm Dont tell me to imagine that hearing music = falling in to volcono... because it is not...

How to really see dangers in sensual pleasures that lead to uprooting the greed for sensual pleasures rather than imagining them to be bad and teaching brain in that way?
I guess you cannot until the harsh reality hits you so bad that you really "f***-up" in one way or another . You are then totally fed-up and revulse agaisnt everything . Until then the escaping is not quite possible .
:o
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Re: How to see sensual pleasures as thron or burning coal?

Post by Inedible »

Try working toward Jhana. It results in pleasure which is not caused by sense contact. I can't say I'm there yet, but I have had moments that showed me this direction.
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Re: How to see sensual pleasures as thron or burning coal?

Post by Alino »

By calming our mind enought sense stimulations will start to be experianced as disturbance, as violence. Emotional states will also be experienced as heat or pressure, as clouds on the blue sky.

All sense information is some kind of emotional manipulation. It triggers our memories and perceptions and create emotional formations. But emotions in themselves are dukkha, they pressures and burn us from inside. If we don't feel free about their presence or absence they can manipulate our behaviour, we can be enslaved by them, be their prey...

In order to understand feelings we need to practice 8 precepts long enough in order to understand their dukkha nature, their pressure and heat, their manipulation on our behaviour, their danger and how they can hinder our mind.

Foggy, unclear mind is a havy mind, unpleasant mind.
Clear, bright and calm mind is a light mind, pleasant mind.

Joy is a sense of intense lightness of mind.
Happiness is a sense of completeness, composure of mind.
Engagement with sense information create distortion in our minds, due to that distortion it becomes foggy, due to that fog of avijja it becomes heavy.

Distorted mind is an uncomposed mind. Uncomposed mind always lacks something. It's unhappy and restless...
Heavy mind is an unbright mind. Unbright mind is not joyfully and light.

When the pleasure and hapiness of renounciation is reached by the practice of that same renouncistion - we realise that true happiness is found in peaceful, bright, light mind. By seeing so - all volitional engagement with the senses becomes burden, heavy, coarse, disturbance. As if someone who wear only silk will hardly agree to wear rough clothes. Or as someone who let down his burden will hardly accept to take it up again...

8 precepts or retreat is a good advices if one want to understand dukkha of the senses and emotions I think...
We don't live Samsara, Samsara is living us...

"Form, feelings, perceptions, formations, consciousness - don't care about us, we don't exist for them"
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Re: How to see sensual pleasures as thron or burning coal?

Post by mjaviem »

I think restrain and seclusion can show the suffering that is craving. To see the danger in sensual pleasures is good to read about what is this danger about in MN 13
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Re: How to see sensual pleasures as thron or burning coal?

Post by mjaviem »

I mean it's not only that they entice desire which is suffering by itself but also the bad things that are done on account of sensual pleasures
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Re: How to see sensual pleasures as thron or burning coal?

Post by GoWiththeflowavatar »

Try finding a place free from disturbances which can arouse your senses. Once you find that place, sit down comfortably and close your eyes. You realize you are left with your mind, and your mind can be directed to a meditation subject. But what disturbs your interaction with your mind or irritates it, is when an outside disturbance such as sound, enters the mind.

You see now how sensual pleasures irritates the mind and pulls it away from the awakening factors, and pushes it towards the hindrances.
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Re: How to see sensual pleasures as thron or burning coal?

Post by mjaviem »

GoWiththeflowavatar wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:38 pm Try finding a place free from disturbances which can arouse your senses. Once you find that place, sit down comfortably and close your eyes. You realize you are left with your mind, and your mind can be directed to a meditation subject. But what disturbs your interaction with your mind or irritates it, is when an outside disturbance such as sound, enters the mind.

You see now how sensual pleasures irritates the mind and pulls it away from the awakening factors, and pushes it towards the hindrances.
The rumble of a passing car is not a sensual pleasure for many people. If it annoys you it's because you don't want it to disturb you. And if you happen to delight in this kind of noise, the problem is not in having it, the problem is in your desire for it and the unwholesome things you can do on account of having more of it.
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Re: How to see sensual pleasures as thron or burning coal?

Post by GoWiththeflowavatar »

[quote=mjaviem post_id=628069 time=1623546876 user_id=17124]
[quote=GoWiththeflowavatar post_id=628055 time=1623541082 user_id=17768]
Try finding a place free from disturbances which can arouse your senses. Once you find that place, sit down comfortably and close your eyes. You realize you are left with your mind, and your mind can be directed to a meditation subject. But what disturbs your interaction with your mind or irritates it, is when an outside disturbance such as sound, enters the mind.

You see now how sensual pleasures irritates the mind and pulls it away from the awakening factors, and pushes it towards the hindrances.
[/quote]
The rumble of a passing car is not a sensual pleasure for many people. If it annoys you it's because you don't want it to disturb you. And if you happen to delight in this kind of noise, the problem is not in having it, the problem is in your desire for it and the unwholesome things you can do on account of having more of it.
[/quote]

I completely agree with you and I hope a rumble of a passing car is not a sensual pleasure for anyone.

From idle talk to enchanting music, these are sensual pleasures to the ears for many. From smelling scents of perfume to baked goods, these are sensual pleasures to the nose for many. From sweets to salty fatty food, these are sensual pleasures to the tongue for many. From touch of a pillow to touch from another person, these are sensual pleasures to the skin for many. As for the eyes, the sight of another, especially the opposite sex or interest, is the highest sensual pleasure.

As you say, so many problems and unwholesomeness with the desire and greed of it all (excessive).
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