IMO the actual text supports "mentality and materiality" better than your interpretation, which is "mentality and phenomena" or something?retrofuturist wrote: ↑Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:28 am Greetings Spiny,
Correct, there is no reference to it, nor am I saying that such explicit reference is there. What I am saying is that it is synonymous or equivalent to the stock phrase "the form derived from", because this form is derived via the factors of nama... feeling, perception, volition, contact, attention.Spiny Norman wrote: ↑Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:15 am A couple of problems with your interpretation:
1. There is no reference to "rupasanna" in the stock description of rupa. Sanna belongs in the nama aspect of nama-rupa, not the rupa aspect.
This was addressed here. There is no standalone rupa, independent of nama, in paticcasamuppada.Spiny Norman wrote: ↑Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:15 am 2. The stock description of rupa is used in nama-rupa, which incudes the four great elements. So using your terminology, both noumena and phenomena are included in nama-rupa. So arguing that rupa is only phenomenal in nama-rupa is a stretch.
Metta,
Paul.
And I don't see the relevance of your standalone argument here, given that nama and rupa are not described as co-dependent.