Your have stated very clear that your take is literal meaning of the term of “earth, water, fire and air”. And I respect that.Spiny Norman wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:09 am The stock description of rupa in the suttas goes like this:
"The four great elements, and form derived from them."
"Cattaro ca mahabhuta, cattunanca maha bhutanam upadayarupam."
What's your understanding of the distinction being made here? What do these two aspects of rupa represent, practically speaking?
I believe your take for 'air' is the element and 'wind' as the form then?
If not, assume that one does hold such opinion.
Not just anyone, I also not intentionally, did also make mistake; because for me, in Chinese, the term is wind for the element itself.
Here's my mistake when I write in this post The word should be Air, not wind, I got mixed up to take the effect of the product of the characteristics of air as primary element.
Say that you and a friend are in a room, close door; no fan, no air-conditioning.4. ‘Element of Air’ or motion (to be perceived and experienced as motion or pressure)
Can you hear air? Not possible.
When your friend speaks, you experience your friend’s voice as in air or air motion as in vibration?
Even if you take the 4 th element as wind, when you stand in front of a table fan that is mechanically soundless, you can not hear wind, not until the wind hit an object and causes vibration, a kind of small amplitude motion - sound vibration.
Assuming that the air movement (motion) that is very powerful, what you hear is the vibration of air particle’s vibration within the wind (air motion). Even if you were to assume that wind is a single object as a whole; for one to able to hear the wind of the table fan, his ear drum probably has to the size of a human, if it does generate enough vibration and not as mere pressure. The amplitude that is produce by a single blade of the fan is too big for our ear.
“nāmarūpapaccayā saḷāyatanaṁ”
Since the ear sense sphere cognizes motion; not air, not wind.
Being not Wind, therefore not form.
i don't see how is form going to cover motion.