Thanks for the clarification.SDC wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:16 am Perhaps my short statement was not very clear. My point was that the description by these corrupted householders wouldn’t even have necessarily taken an accurate account of how the monks appeared into consideration, but was purely meant to imply that whatever they were doing was wrong.
Focusing like an Owl
- Dhammanando
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Re: Focusing like an Owl
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
Re: Focusing like an Owl
Who is pajapati then ? Also abhibhu ? Are they Mara ?
No bashing No gossiping
Re: Focusing like an Owl
Thanks for raising that sutta. That's certainly a sutta about not doing things right, but it's not clear how it supports N. Ñānamoli's specific opinions about meditation approaches. I would say that I do find some of his advice quite helpful. However, to me, he seems a little too determined to force a particular readings on some suttas. There is a big difference between the claims "these suttas are consistent with my advice", and "these suttas are inconsistent with the advice of others."
Mike
Re: Focusing like an Owl
Yes, that is another good one. The cook looked for more. He looked for the significance in what was happening. Indeed, the example from MN 50 is difficult to decipher as anything other than an insult, but the concept of failing to look for more than just one thing is significant, and if the Mara Dusi convinced those householders to say, "those ascetics meditate like a wild colt who only sees the food in his trowel, or like a cook who doesn't look for his master's preference", he would have been describing wrong meditation and it would have been something intended to disturb the bhikkhus.Mkoll wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:32 amAnother sutta along similar lines is SN 47.8, below translated by Ven. Bodhi and taken from suttacentral.net:SDC wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:16 amFurthermore, I mentioned those other two suttas to give the OP better examples of the concept being described in the talk since this example from MN 50 was not very clear. In AN 11.9 for example, the wild colt, when put in front of the trowel just considers the food right there in front of him and nothing more, while the thoroughbred horse is smart enough to know that his master is feeding him for a reason, so he wisely considers more than just the food in front of him.
47.8. The Cook
...
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
Re: Focusing like an Owl
Dhammanando wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:59 amThanks for the clarification.SDC wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:16 am Perhaps my short statement was not very clear. My point was that the description by these corrupted householders wouldn’t even have necessarily taken an accurate account of how the monks appeared into consideration, but was purely meant to imply that whatever they were doing was wrong.