The Dhamma is simple (if we want it to be)

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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DooDoot
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Re: The Dhamma is simple (if we want it to be)

Post by DooDoot »

Dhammanando wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:43 am Having said that, even if there was only one sutta containing the formula, the fact that it was a normative way of expounding the Dhamma can be see from the Udayisutta, AN 5.159.
Possibly but my recollection of the OP is how dhamma was "often" taught to laypeople. DN 31 says laypeople are to be taught the path to heaven, which appears the predominant teaching in the suttas, namely, kamma & 'rebirth' rather than the Four Noble Truths. It appears the formula in question was only taught to laypeople the Buddha perceived were capable of stream-entry. Since the Buddha is not here with us on Dhammawheel, we cannot be sure the Buddha would have taught the formula to the OP BrokenBones. With metta :smile:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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cappuccino
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Re: The Dhamma is simple (if we want it to be)

Post by cappuccino »

lay people were at the first three levels of awakening


because Buddha intended for that, that was his mission
BrokenBones
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Re: The Dhamma is simple (if we want it to be)

Post by BrokenBones »

DooDoot wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:49 am
Dhammanando wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:43 am Having said that, even if there was only one sutta containing the formula, the fact that it was a normative way of expounding the Dhamma can be see from the Udayisutta, AN 5.159.
Possibly but my recollection of the OP is how dhamma was "often" taught to laypeople. DN 31 says laypeople are to be taught the path to heaven, which appears the predominant teaching in the suttas, namely, kamma & 'rebirth' rather than the Four Noble Truths. It appears the formula in question was only taught to laypeople the Buddha perceived were capable of stream-entry. Since the Buddha is not here with us on Dhammawheel, we cannot be sure the Buddha would have taught the formula to the OP BrokenBones. With metta :smile:
😂

So it's a 'formula' that is only worthwhile if taught by the Buddha to a select few?

One wonders why it appears in the suttas at all... in fact, couldn't the same 'reasoning' 🤣 be applied to virtually every sutta we have.

As regards the Buddha predominantly teaching only a way to heaven to laypeople... have you read the suttas?
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DooDoot
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Re: The Dhamma is simple (if we want it to be)

Post by DooDoot »

BrokenBones wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:16 am One wonders why it appears in the suttas at all... in fact, couldn't the same 'reasoning' 🤣 be applied to virtually every sutta we have.
Indeed:
I surveyed the world with the eye of a Buddha. Surveying the world with the eye of a Buddha, I saw beings with little dust in their eyes and with much dust in their eyes, with keen faculties and with dull faculties, with good qualities and with bad qualities, easy to teach and hard to teach, and some who dwelt seeing fear and blame in the other world.

MN 26
"This sort of talk on the Dhamma, householder, is not given to lay people clad in white. This sort of talk on the Dhamma is given to those gone forth."

MN 143
:candle:
BrokenBones wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:16 amAs regards the Buddha predominantly teaching only a way to heaven to laypeople... have you read the suttas?
630 results for heaven
:reading:
"The ascetics and brahmans thus ministered to as the Zenith by a householder show their compassion towards him in six ways:

(i) they restrain him from evil,
(ii) they persuade him to do good,
(iii) they love him with a kind heart,
(iv) they make him hear what he has not heard,
(v) they clarify what he has already heard,
(vi) they point out the path to a heavenly state.

DN 31
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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BrokenBones
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Re: The Dhamma is simple (if we want it to be)

Post by BrokenBones »

Dootdoot... So what... I don't see your point

594 results for hell

https://suttacentral.net/search?query=Hell

And just for you...

https://suttacentral.net/search?query=Rebirth

1261 results for rebirth... we have a winner :woohoo:

I don't know what the prize is... I just don't see your point.
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