Becoming a Buddhist Monk

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Becoming a Buddhist Monk

Post by JamesTheGiant »

dharmatheway84 wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:03 pm Are monks in modern America allowed to have a few possessions like say the materials that comprise an altar and a few potted plants. I ask because I am an avid horticulture enthusiast.
Monks can have a lot of possessions, those things you mentioned will be no problem at all. The ideal is to have very few things, but you know how it is. :tongue:

Just to let you know, when you become a full bhikkhu, there's a rule which says a monk cannot even cut one blade of grass, can't kill even one leaf deliberately. So horticulture might be difficult; you could grow things, but not weed or prune. Different monasteries have different strict-ness about this rule, but it's something to be aware of if you're going to ordain.

What an exciting journey you have ahead of you! I was a monk for a few years, it was really excellent. What monasteries are you considering? You're in Florida?
form
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Re: Becoming a Buddhist Monk

Post by form »

JamesTheGiant wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:45 pm
dharmatheway84 wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:03 pm Are monks in modern America allowed to have a few possessions like say the materials that comprise an altar and a few potted plants. I ask because I am an avid horticulture enthusiast.
Monks can have a lot of possessions, those things you mentioned will be no problem at all. The ideal is to have very few things, but you know how it is. :tongue:

Just to let you know, when you become a full bhikkhu, there's a rule which says a monk cannot even cut one blade of grass, can't kill even one leaf deliberately. So horticulture might be difficult; you could grow things, but not weed or prune. Different monasteries have different strict-ness about this rule, but it's something to be aware of if you're going to ordain.

What an exciting journey you have ahead of you! I was a monk for a few years, it was really excellent. What monasteries are you considering? You're in Florida?
Junior monk can do gardening. Senior monk cannot.
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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Becoming a Buddhist Monk

Post by JamesTheGiant »

form wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:24 am Junior monk can do gardening. Senior monk cannot.
Ok, more accurate to say a novice monk can do gardening, and a full bhikkhu cannot.
In the west where Dhammatheway84 is from, that novice time will probably be one year.
form
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Re: Becoming a Buddhist Monk

Post by form »

JamesTheGiant wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:31 am
form wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:24 am Junior monk can do gardening. Senior monk cannot.
Ok, more accurate to say a novice monk can do gardening, and a full bhikkhu cannot.
In the west where Dhammatheway84 is from, that novice time will probably be one year.
Sure. More laypeople should help out in a temple.
SarathW
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Re: Becoming a Buddhist Monk

Post by SarathW »

confusedlayman wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:18 pm
JamesTheGiant wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:10 pm What dhammacorps said is good.
The main thing that stops a lot of people is debt. You just can't ordain if you owe any money.
What about -5$ in bank account? No police or bank come in seaech but even 1$ debt is debt?
You always can find someone to pay a small debt.
If you are desperate go busking or sell some plants to pay off your debt.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
form
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Re: Becoming a Buddhist Monk

Post by form »

Why can't a monk harm a plant? What is the explanation?
dharmacorps
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Re: Becoming a Buddhist Monk

Post by dharmacorps »

form wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:23 pm Why can't a monk harm a plant? What is the explanation?
No killing. Its the first precept.
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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Becoming a Buddhist Monk

Post by JamesTheGiant »

form wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:23 pm Why can't a monk harm a plant? What is the explanation?
It's the rule Pācittiya 11, "The damaging of a living plant is to be confessed."
I heard the explanation that members of a different religion complained to the Buddha that monks were killing plants, which were protected in their religion. And out of respect for these people, the Buddha commanded monks not to kill plants.

There is also another explanation from the commentaries to the vinaya. So it's not too reliable, but it's a nice story...
“A certain Āḷavī bhikkhu was chopping down a tree. The devatā living in the tree said to the bhikkhu, ‘Venerable sir, do not chop down my home to build a home for yourself.’ The bhikkhu, disregarding her, kept right on chopping and injured the arm of the devatā’s child. The devatā thought: ‘What if I were to kill this bhikkhu right here?’ Then another thought occurred to her: ‘But no, that wouldn’t be proper…. What if I were to tell the Blessed One of what has happened?’ So she went to the Blessed One and… told him of what had happened.

“‘Very good, devatā, very good. It’s very good that you didn’t kill the bhikkhu. If you had killed him today, you would have produced much demerit for yourself. Now go, devatā. Over there is a vacant tree. Go into it.’ (The Commentary adds here that the tree, being in Jeta’s Grove, was a definite move up for the devatā. She had a front-row seat for overhearing the Buddha’s teachings well into the night; unlike other lesser devas she wasn’t pushed out to the far reaches of the galaxy when large groups of major devas met with the Buddha; and when the Four Great Kings came to attend to the Buddha, they always made a point of visiting her before leaving. However:)

“People criticized and complained and spread it about, ‘How can these Sakyan-son monks cut down trees and have them cut down? They are mistreating one-facultied life.’”

https://www.dhammatalks.org/vinaya/bmc/Section0017.html
form
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Re: Becoming a Buddhist Monk

Post by form »

dharmacorps wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 7:17 pm
form wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:23 pm Why can't a monk harm a plant? What is the explanation?
No killing. Its the first precept.
I thought plant is not considered a being?
form
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Re: Becoming a Buddhist Monk

Post by form »

JamesTheGiant wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:47 pm
form wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:23 pm Why can't a monk harm a plant? What is the explanation?
It's the rule Pācittiya 11, "The damaging of a living plant is to be confessed."
I heard the explanation that members of a different religion complained to the Buddha that monks were killing plants, which were protected in their religion. And out of respect for these people, the Buddha commanded monks not to kill plants.

There is also another explanation from the commentaries to the vinaya. So it's not too reliable, but it's a nice story...
“A certain Āḷavī bhikkhu was chopping down a tree. The devatā living in the tree said to the bhikkhu, ‘Venerable sir, do not chop down my home to build a home for yourself.’ The bhikkhu, disregarding her, kept right on chopping and injured the arm of the devatā’s child. The devatā thought: ‘What if I were to kill this bhikkhu right here?’ Then another thought occurred to her: ‘But no, that wouldn’t be proper…. What if I were to tell the Blessed One of what has happened?’ So she went to the Blessed One and… told him of what had happened.

“‘Very good, devatā, very good. It’s very good that you didn’t kill the bhikkhu. If you had killed him today, you would have produced much demerit for yourself. Now go, devatā. Over there is a vacant tree. Go into it.’ (The Commentary adds here that the tree, being in Jeta’s Grove, was a definite move up for the devatā. She had a front-row seat for overhearing the Buddha’s teachings well into the night; unlike other lesser devas she wasn’t pushed out to the far reaches of the galaxy when large groups of major devas met with the Buddha; and when the Four Great Kings came to attend to the Buddha, they always made a point of visiting her before leaving. However:)

“People criticized and complained and spread it about, ‘How can these Sakyan-son monks cut down trees and have them cut down? They are mistreating one-facultied life.’”

https://www.dhammatalks.org/vinaya/bmc/Section0017.html
Thanks for sharing.

My friend thinks it is due to Jainism influence.
SarathW
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Re: Becoming a Buddhist Monk

Post by SarathW »

form wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 3:40 am
JamesTheGiant wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:47 pm
form wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:23 pm Why can't a monk harm a plant? What is the explanation?
It's the rule Pācittiya 11, "The damaging of a living plant is to be confessed."
I heard the explanation that members of a different religion complained to the Buddha that monks were killing plants, which were protected in their religion. And out of respect for these people, the Buddha commanded monks not to kill plants.

There is also another explanation from the commentaries to the vinaya. So it's not too reliable, but it's a nice story...
“A certain Āḷavī bhikkhu was chopping down a tree. The devatā living in the tree said to the bhikkhu, ‘Venerable sir, do not chop down my home to build a home for yourself.’ The bhikkhu, disregarding her, kept right on chopping and injured the arm of the devatā’s child. The devatā thought: ‘What if I were to kill this bhikkhu right here?’ Then another thought occurred to her: ‘But no, that wouldn’t be proper…. What if I were to tell the Blessed One of what has happened?’ So she went to the Blessed One and… told him of what had happened.

“‘Very good, devatā, very good. It’s very good that you didn’t kill the bhikkhu. If you had killed him today, you would have produced much demerit for yourself. Now go, devatā. Over there is a vacant tree. Go into it.’ (The Commentary adds here that the tree, being in Jeta’s Grove, was a definite move up for the devatā. She had a front-row seat for overhearing the Buddha’s teachings well into the night; unlike other lesser devas she wasn’t pushed out to the far reaches of the galaxy when large groups of major devas met with the Buddha; and when the Four Great Kings came to attend to the Buddha, they always made a point of visiting her before leaving. However:)

“People criticized and complained and spread it about, ‘How can these Sakyan-son monks cut down trees and have them cut down? They are mistreating one-facultied life.’”

https://www.dhammatalks.org/vinaya/bmc/Section0017.html
Thanks for sharing.

My friend thinks it is due to Jainism influence.
Yes, it is a good posting.
Whatever it is this rule is a very futuristic idea considering the present climate change debate.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
form
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Re: Becoming a Buddhist Monk

Post by form »

SarathW wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 4:39 am
form wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 3:40 am
JamesTheGiant wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:47 pm
It's the rule Pācittiya 11, "The damaging of a living plant is to be confessed."
I heard the explanation that members of a different religion complained to the Buddha that monks were killing plants, which were protected in their religion. And out of respect for these people, the Buddha commanded monks not to kill plants.

There is also another explanation from the commentaries to the vinaya. So it's not too reliable, but it's a nice story...

Thanks for sharing.

My friend thinks it is due to Jainism influence.
Yes, it is a good posting.
Whatever it is this rule is a very futuristic idea considering the present climate change debate.
The evolution of Buddhism in China has long become being self sufficient in food supply, as in they plant their own crops and keep supplies in the temple.
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