Cave versus forest

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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form
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Cave versus forest

Post by form »

Did the Buddha ever live in a cave?
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mjaviem
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Re: Cave versus forest

Post by mjaviem »

Perhaps a prehistoric buddha.
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Re: Cave versus forest

Post by Spiny Norman »

form wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:22 am Did the Buddha ever live in a cave?
https://suttacentral.net/sn48.58/en/sujato
Buddha save me from new-agers!
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Re: Cave versus forest

Post by form »

Cave seems better than forest as dwellings and for meditation
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Re: Cave versus forest

Post by Spiny Norman »

form wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:38 am Cave seems better than forest as dwellings and for meditation
Until the boar returns. :tongue:
Buddha save me from new-agers!
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Re: Cave versus forest

Post by form »

Spiny Norman wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:03 am
form wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:38 am Cave seems better than forest as dwellings and for meditation
Until the boar returns. :tongue:
Many south east Asian monks and China monks seems to stay in cave. Some were said to attain enlightenment meditating in cave after long period of time.
Bundokji
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Re: Cave versus forest

Post by Bundokji »

Caves as dwellings symbolize withdrawal, while forests symbolize diversity and more active engagement.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
form
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Re: Cave versus forest

Post by form »

I wish I can stay in a cave
justindesilva
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Re: Cave versus forest

Post by justindesilva »

form wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:22 am Did the Buddha ever live in a cave?
There is no historical evidence that budda lived in a cave. But there is mention that he spent his time under the bo tree meditating and finally 7days with anapana sati bavana.
It is here that mara tried to stop him from attaining (bodhi) buddahood and failed.
Bundokji
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Re: Cave versus forest

Post by Bundokji »

form wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:12 am I wish I can stay in a cave
Then you might enjoy this old thread

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=21178
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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robertk
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Re: Cave versus forest

Post by robertk »

form wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:12 am I wish I can stay in a cave
Aṅguttara Nikāya 10
7. Pairs7. Yamakavagga
66. Happiness (2nd)66. Dutiyasukhasutta



“Reverend, in this teaching and training dissatisfaction is suffering and satisfaction is happiness.
“Anabhirati kho, āvuso, imasmiṁ dhammavinaye dukkhā, abhirati sukhā.When you’re dissatisfied, you can expect this kind of suffering.
Anabhiratiyā, āvuso, sati idaṁ dukkhaṁ pāṭikaṅkhaṁ—
You find no happiness or pleasure while walking …
gacchantopi sukhaṁ sātaṁ nādhigacchati,standing …ṭhitopi …sitting …nisinnopi …or lying down …sayānopi …or when in a village …gāmagatopi …a wilderness …
araññagatopi …at the root of a tree …rukkhamūlagatopi …an empty hut …suññāgāragatopi …the open air …abbhokāsagatopi …or when among the mendicants.
bhikkhumajjhagatopi sukhaṁ sātaṁ nādhigacchati.When you’re dissatisfied, this is the kind of suffering you can expect.
Anabhiratiyā, āvuso, sati idaṁ dukkhaṁ pāṭikaṅkhaṁ.

When you’re satisfied, you can expect this kind of happiness.
Abhiratiyā, āvuso, sati idaṁ sukhaṁ pāṭikaṅkhaṁ—
You find happiness or pleasure while walking …
gacchantopi sukhaṁ sātaṁ adhigacchati,standing …ṭhitopi …sitting …nisinnopi …or lying down …sayānopi …or when in a village …gāmagatopi …a wilderness …araññagatopi …at the root of a tree …rukkhamūlagatopi …an empty hut …suññāgāragatopi
…the open air …abbhokāsagatopi …or when among the mendicants.
bhikkhumajjhagatopi sukhaṁ sātaṁ adhigacchati.
When you’re satisfied, this is the kind of happiness you can expect.”
Abhiratiyā, āvuso, sati idaṁ sukhaṁ pāṭikaṅkhan”ti.
Bundokji
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Re: Cave versus forest

Post by Bundokji »

The lord taught a different type of solitude, hence the forest is a general theme in Buddhism than caves:
On one occasion the Blessed One was staying near Rajagaha in the Bamboo Grove, the squirrels' sanctuary. Now at that time a certain monk by the name of Elder[1] was one who lived alone and extolled the virtues of living alone. Alone he entered the village for alms, alone he returned, alone he sat withdrawn [in meditation], alone he did walking meditation.

Then a large number of monks went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to him, sat to one side. As they were sitting there, they informed him: "Lord, there is a certain monk by the name of Elder who lives alone and extols the virtues of living alone."

Then the Blessed One told a certain monk, "Come, monk. In my name, call the monk named Elder, saying, 'The Teacher calls you, my friend.'"

"As you say, lord," the monk answered and, having gone to Ven. Elder, on arrival he said, "The Teacher calls you, my friend."

"As you say, my friend," Ven. Elder replied. Then he went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to him, sat to one side. As he was sitting there, the Blessed One said to him, "Is it true, Elder, that you live alone and extol the virtues of living alone?"

"Yes, lord."

"But how do you live alone and extol the virtues of living alone?"

"Lord, alone I enter the village for alms, alone I return, alone I sit withdrawn [in meditation], alone I do walking meditation. That is how I live alone and extol the virtues of living alone."

"There is that way of living alone, Elder. I don't say that there isn't. Still, listen well to how your living alone is perfected in its details, and pay close attention. I will speak."

"As you say, lord," Ven. Elder responded.

The Blessed One said: "And how is living alone perfected in its details? There is the case where whatever is past is abandoned, whatever is future is relinquished, and any passion & desire with regard to states of being attained in the present is well subdued.[2] That is how living alone is perfected in its details."

That is what the Blessed One said. Having said it, the One Well-gone further said this:

"All-conquering,
all-knowing, intelligent;
with regard to all things,
unadhering;
all-abandoning,
released in the ending of craving:
him I call
a man who lives
alone."
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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pitakele
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Re: Cave versus forest

Post by pitakele »

Spiny Norman wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:41 am
form wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:22 am Did the Buddha ever live in a cave?
https://suttacentral.net/sn48.58/en/sujato
The Boar's Cave near Vulture's Peak although small, is very inspiring. I don't know if there are canonical references, but Buddha is said to have spent time at Sattapanni Cave, Rajagaha (venue of First Council) and also Mahākāla Cave near Bodhgaya. All of these caves are worth visiting.

We are limited in travel during these covid times. However, if anyone has a chance to be in Bodhgaya, I highly recommend visiting Gurpa Mountain where Mahākassapa dwelt - quite a climb, but so peaceful and so still. It is said that Buddha sometimes stayed there.
aniccā vata saṇkhārā - tesaṁ vūpasamo sukho
form
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Re: Cave versus forest

Post by form »

pitakele wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:14 pm
Spiny Norman wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:41 am
form wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:22 am Did the Buddha ever live in a cave?
https://suttacentral.net/sn48.58/en/sujato
The Boar's Cave near Vulture's Peak although small, is very inspiring. I don't know if there are canonical references, but Buddha is said to have spent time at Sattapanni Cave, Rajagaha (venue of First Council) and also Mahākāla Cave near Bodhgaya. All of these caves are worth visiting.

We are limited in travel during these covid times. However, if anyone has a chance to be in Bodhgaya, I highly recommend visiting Gurpa Mountain where Mahākassapa dwelt - quite a climb, but so peaceful and so still. It is said that Buddha sometimes stayed there.
Is that the place the legend said mahakassapa was in jhana waiting for the next Buddha so that he can pass over something to the next Buddha?
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pitakele
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Re: Cave versus forest

Post by pitakele »

form wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:46 pm
pitakele wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:14 pm Gurpa Mountain where Mahākassapa dwelt
Is that the place the legend said mahakassapa was in jhana waiting for the next Buddha so that he can pass over something to the next Buddha?
Yes, the legend appears in later traditions

In many post-canonical texts, Mahākāśyapa decided at the end of his life to enter a state of meditation and suspended animation, which was believed to cause his physical remains to stay intact in a cave under a mountain called Kukkuṭapāda, until the coming of Maitreya Buddha. This story has led to several cults and practices, and affected some Buddhist countries up until early modern times. It has been interpreted by scholars as a narrative to physically connect Gautama Buddha and Maitreya Buddha, through the body of Mahākāśyapa and Gautama Buddha's robe, which covered Mahākāśyapa's remains. In Chan Buddhism, this account was less emphasized, but Mahākāśyapa was seen to have received a special mind-to-mind transmission from Gautama Buddha outside of orthodox scripture, which became essential to the identity of Chan. Again, the robe was an important symbol in this transmission. Apart from having a role in texts and lineage, Mahākāśyapa has often been depicted in Buddhist art as a symbol of reassurance and hope for the future of Buddhism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mah%C4%81 ... %C5%9Byapa
Note: The only mention of a future Buddha Metteyya (= Maitreya) in the main body of the Pali texts is in one sutta in the Dīgha Nikāya https://suttacentral.net/dn26/en/tw-caf_rhysdavids

These are verses attributed to Mahākassapa describing his delight in his mountain abode
Returning from alms-round,
Kassapa ascends the mountain,
and practices absorption without grasping,
with fear and dread given up.

Returning from alms-round,
Kassapa ascends the mountain,
and practices absorption without grasping,
quenched amongst those who burn.

Returning from alms-round,
Kassapa ascends the mountain,
and practices absorption without grasping,
his task completed, free of defilements.”

“Strewn with garlands of the musk-rose tree,
these regions are so delightful, so lovely,
echoing with the trumpeting of elephants:
these rocky crags delight me!

Glistening, they look like blue storm clouds,
with waters cool and streams so clear,
and covered all in ladybugs:
these rocky crags delight me!

Like the peak of a blue storm cloud,
or like a fine bungalow, lovely,
echoing with the trumpeting of elephants:
these rocky crags delight me!

The rain comes down on the lovely flats,
in the mountains frequented by hermits.
Echoing with the cries of peacocks,
these rocky crags delight me!

It’s enough for me,
who loves absorption and is resolute, to be mindful.
It’s enough for me,
a resolute monk who loves the goal.

It’s enough for me,
a resolute monk who loves comfort.
It’s enough for me,
resolute and poised, loving meditation.

Covered with flowers of flax,
like the sky covered with clouds,
full of flocks of many different birds,
these rocky crags delight me!

Empty of householders,
frequented by herds of deer,
full of flocks of many different birds,
these rocky crags delight me!

The water’s clear and the rocks are broad,
monkeys and deer are all around;
festooned with dewy moss,
these rocky crags delight me!”

https://suttacentral.net/thag18.1/en/sujato
aniccā vata saṇkhārā - tesaṁ vūpasamo sukho
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