A rotting stench? We are talking about human beings here.
Buddha had a body as well.
A rotting stench? We are talking about human beings here.
Not to an enlightened being. An enlightened being doesn't "have" a body, they are disjoined from the aggregates.Zenny wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:03 pmA rotting stench? We are talking about human beings here.
Buddha had a body as well.
An enlightened being doesn't see "people" either, they see just dukkha, which is the 3 poisons mixed in with a heap of aggregates.“Enough, Vakkali! Why do you want to see this foul body? One who sees the Dhamma sees me; one who sees me sees the Dhamma. For in seeing the Dhamma, Vakkali, one sees me; and in seeing me, one sees the Dhamma.
They don't have the perversion of perception that would lead to attraction to a "body"35. "Why now do you assume 'a being'?
Mara, have you grasped a view?
This is a heap of sheer constructions:
Here no being is found.
36. Just as, with an assemblage of parts,
The word 'chariot' is used,
So, when the aggregates are present,
There's the convention 'a being.'
37. It's only suffering that comes to be,
Suffering that stands and falls away.
Nothing but suffering comes to be,
Nothing but suffering ceases."[27]
Taking impermanence as permanence.
Taking suffering as happiness.
Taking not-self as self.
Taking ugliness as beauty.
These are the four perversions of perception, mind, and view.
Well,the Buddha sure still ate food to maintain his body.un8- wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:25 amNot to an enlightened being. An enlightened being doesn't "have" a body, they are disjoined from the aggregates.
An enlightened being doesn't see "people" either, they see just dukkha, which is the 3 poisons mixed in with a heap of aggregates.“Enough, Vakkali! Why do you want to see this foul body? One who sees the Dhamma sees me; one who sees me sees the Dhamma. For in seeing the Dhamma, Vakkali, one sees me; and in seeing me, one sees the Dhamma.
They don't have the perversion of perception that would lead to attraction to a "body"35. "Why now do you assume 'a being'?
Mara, have you grasped a view?
This is a heap of sheer constructions:
Here no being is found.
36. Just as, with an assemblage of parts,
The word 'chariot' is used,
So, when the aggregates are present,
There's the convention 'a being.'
37. It's only suffering that comes to be,
Suffering that stands and falls away.
Nothing but suffering comes to be,
Nothing but suffering ceases."[27]
Taking impermanence as permanence.
Taking suffering as happiness.
Taking not-self as self.
Taking ugliness as beauty.
These are the four perversions of perception, mind, and view.
Only to teach the dhamma. When the job was done, he let himself die.Zenny wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:53 amWell,the Buddha sure still ate food to maintain his body.un8- wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:25 amNot to an enlightened being. An enlightened being doesn't "have" a body, they are disjoined from the aggregates.
An enlightened being doesn't see "people" either, they see just dukkha, which is the 3 poisons mixed in with a heap of aggregates.“Enough, Vakkali! Why do you want to see this foul body? One who sees the Dhamma sees me; one who sees me sees the Dhamma. For in seeing the Dhamma, Vakkali, one sees me; and in seeing me, one sees the Dhamma.
They don't have the perversion of perception that would lead to attraction to a "body"35. "Why now do you assume 'a being'?
Mara, have you grasped a view?
This is a heap of sheer constructions:
Here no being is found.
36. Just as, with an assemblage of parts,
The word 'chariot' is used,
So, when the aggregates are present,
There's the convention 'a being.'
37. It's only suffering that comes to be,
Suffering that stands and falls away.
Nothing but suffering comes to be,
Nothing but suffering ceases."[27]
Taking impermanence as permanence.
Taking suffering as happiness.
Taking not-self as self.
Taking ugliness as beauty.
These are the four perversions of perception, mind, and view.
So why didn't he continue to teach?un8- wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:09 amOnly to teach the dhamma. When the job was done, he let himself die.Zenny wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:53 amWell,the Buddha sure still ate food to maintain his body.un8- wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:25 am
Not to an enlightened being. An enlightened being doesn't "have" a body, they are disjoined from the aggregates.
An enlightened being doesn't see "people" either, they see just dukkha, which is the 3 poisons mixed in with a heap of aggregates.
They don't have the perversion of perception that would lead to attraction to a "body"
This reply may be a bit too late, but you have to think about the drawbacks of kama-tanha (desire for sense pleasures).un8- wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 7:03 am Hello, this is my first post here, and came to ask the only one important question I have regarding the dhamma, as someone who has tried to practice for several years.
From my position
- I don't know if rebirth is true or that I will be reborn, so when I die my life is over
- As a 36 year old, I have another 40-50 years at best to live, so I want to enjoy life
- Even though I know sensual pleasures are impermanent, I know pleasant feelings are Impermanent, and I know access to sensual pleasures are impermanent (I may go blind, lose my teeth, lose internet, money, etc..) I still want to enjoy sensual pleasures in the here and now
So faith, ideology, and metaphysics aside, which are things I can't verify here and now like rebirth, why should I give up sensual pleasures?
Take pornography for example, it takes zero effort to load up a website, it doesn't physically harm you, it can mentally harm you if you're obsessively addicted, but what's wrong with someone spending less than 20 minutes a day getting the urge out and then moving on? I know the pleasant feeling of an orgasm is extremely short and momentarily but in the moment it feels good and then when the feeling is gone, you move on.
No matter how many suttas I've read on this topic, or how many hours I've spent meditating, I can't rationally nor experientially arrive at a point where I give up sensual pleasures.
Thank you in advance for your input
wenjaforever wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:53 am Me personally I don't like the idea of giving up sensual pleasure. The dhamma is like a train, once you understand which train to hop into, there's not even a steering wheel on a train. It simply carries you to the destination. At one point you will get bored driving a Porsche. At one point you will get bored eating your favourite food or drink. At one point you get bored playing your favourite game or your favourite song.
Please quote from the essay anything that is assumed.You're assuming a lot there.
Why notOne CAN NOT just give up sensory pleasures by sheer willpower and become an Anāgāmi.
Yes but you have to understand it yourself. Not just because someone said so. You have to taste sugar with your own tongue to know what sweet is like. The sensual realm is a phase you have to go through to understand the whole and complete dhamma. Don't take no shortcuts. You might say there is no soul, but is there a body? Do you have a physical body? Yes matter exists, but is it the ultimate truth? Do the 5 senses and your neural system exist? Does the mind exist? Yes the soul exists but it is not the ultimate truth. You can't just leap to reach the top floor, you need to take the staircase.Maharaja wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:15 pm
The problem is, you dont just get bored of one thing and then your desire is over. Once you get bored of one thing you seek another, then another, then another. And its a never ending thing. Always chasing it like a mirage. You always think the happiness is right there, so you run, only to have it move further and further away. So you spend your whole life running behind happiness, but never actually getting it. Thats why you need to develop the dasa saññā, practice satipatthana, indriya samvara, etc. Once you remove the desire for aights, sounds, smells, tastes, bodily feelings, then no matter what kind of sensory input you get, your mind is satisfied. Your mind doesnt need to depend on external environment for you to be happy then.
The reason is precisely what I explained in the essay. It is a step-by-step process.cappuccino wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:31 pmWhy notOne CAN NOT just give up sensory pleasures by sheer willpower and become an Anāgāmi.
you just understand delight is the reason you're in Saṃsāra