Sam Vara wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:01 am
un8- wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:42 am
So that's one point for why someone should give up sensual desires that's not based on faith, metaphysics and unverifiable ideology. Anyone have any more?
I don't think it is all that helpful to think about "giving up sensual desires". Sensual desires are what they are. They arise in the mind and then run their course according to conditions. It might be more helpful to think about giving up certain
reactions to the sensual desires once they have arisen. Indulging them by allowing the mind to present you with a customary and ready-made "solution" is one such reaction. It's possible that you can drop that habitual reaction, and come up with a more deliberate, thoughtful response.
This is what I'm aiming for, but how is that done? How does one not scratch an extremely itchy itch.
The only options given so far in this thread are
- Pretend that scratching the itch isn't pleasant (denying that the pleasure is actually pleasant)
(doesn't work)
- Don't scratch the itch because the ideology says so
(doesn't work)
- To be a member of this club, you have to not scratch the itch
(doesn't work and everyone else in the club is scratching the itch, so hypocrisy)
- Keep practicing and one day you will magically not want to scratch the itch
(doesn't work)
- People who scratch itches are bad aka moral shaming
(doesn't work)
- Understanding dependent origination will make you not scratch the itch (possibly, but unverfiable/unconfirmed)
- Scratching the itch will make it itchier and you'll want to scratch more (confirmed true, but doesn't actually stop the itch and usually requires will power, this is where a possible real non-willpower solution could be found)
There is only one battle that could be won, and that is the battle against the 3 poisons. Any other battle is a guaranteed loss because you're going to die either way.