How far can one self study and practice mahasi noting?

[tmt93]

Ive settled on practicing the the noting method. My initial impression reading some of mahasi's manual of insight was that you could realize the 3 characteristics simply noting.

However as I delved a little deeper, the manual of insight gets way more complicated when it starts going through the 16 stages of insight. I thought all the insights unfolded from simply noting. Now it seems there may be more to it.

Im going through Bhante Yuttadhammos online course now. Its expected to last between 12 to 14 weeks with weekly interviews. But it sems to go through all the levels of insight one would need close, continual guidance for years with a teacher. What does one do who wants to dedicate themselves to a practice but isnt sure where to go to find a teacher?

Am I over-complicating the method?

[retrofuturist]

Greetings,

I thought all the insights unfolded from simply noting. Now it seems there may be more to it.

I do not follow this practice, but I have heard it said that the "noting" is dropped at some point, once it becomes too much of a disturbance.

This makes sense because the act of noting, is the act of creating sankhara. If one seeks to tranquilize mental and bodily fabrications, creating more fabrications wouldn't seem to be the way to achieve it.

Either way, I wish you all the best in resolving your current issue.

Metta,
Paul.

[SarathW]

I am sorry I can't answer your question as I am not familiar with Mahasi noting method.
I simply practice meditation based on Satipathana Sutta and Anapanasati Sutta.

[sakyan]

Ven Mahasi method is noting but the Satipatthana method of being aware of whatever is happening at the present moment.

There is nothing more to add, You should just keep on noting whatever is arising. Just that and it leads to magga-phala.

As for the manual it's for reference purpose and is not necessary to follow, Only noting with proper mindfulness is necessary.

One shouldn't doubt the method as its a direct instruction method by the Buddha himself. Even Ven Mahasi Sayadaw attained magga-phala by this method.

A reputed arhant Ven Sunlun Sayadaw attained Sotapanna-Arhata stage by just being aware of whatever is touching the body.

Just follow noting continuously without slacking and insight knowledges will automatically arise, Your worry and restlessness about insight knowledge due to noting can be a hindrance to insight itself, you need to let go of that. Let the dhamma and noting method be your guide.

[retrofuturist]

Greetings sakyan,

Only noting with proper mindfulness is necessary.

Oh, so no Noble Eightfold Path required then?

One shouldn't doubt the method as its a direct instruction method by the Buddha himself.

Nonsense. That's what it's called the Mahasi method, not the Buddha method.

Metta,
Paul.

[sakyan]

Greetings sakyan,

Only noting with proper mindfulness is necessary.

Oh, so no Noble Eightfold Path required then?

One shouldn't doubt the method as its a direct instruction method by the Buddha himself.

Nonsense. That's what it's called the Mahasi method, not the Buddha method.

Metta,
Paul.

Good friend, Don't be so quick in judging.

When one is mindful of body or feelings or mind or dhamma, one is restrained in eye, ears, nose, tounge, body and mind. One is then said to be accomplished in Sila.

When one is mindful of body or feelings or mind or dhamma, One is said to be rightly concentrated and fulfills right Samadhi

When one is mindful of body or feelings or mind or dhamma, One is able to see that there is only Rupa and nama arising and not a person or being, One then fulfills through right Panna.

The fulfillment of Sila, Samadhi and Panna is nothing but the the fulfillment of the Noble 8 fold path.

Furthermore, The Buddha in many ways have described how mindfulness when developed leads to the fulfillment of the 7 factors of enlightenment. When 7 factors of enlightenment are fulfilled the result is magga-phala.

Noting method is nothing but mindfulness of whatever is arising and passing away in body, feelings, mind or dhamma and is a legit method even as per the Satipatthana sutta.

[retrofuturist]

Greetings sakyan,

Yes, I understand that's the rationalisation provided by the Vipassana traditions, but again, that is not what the Buddha taught... hence why it is indeed the Mahasi Method, not the Buddha method.

I'm not saying don't practice it - but it would be wholesome to desist from saying it is what it's not, and thereby prevent inadvertent slander of the Blessed One. If it's good then it should stand on its own merits, without trying to ride off the Buddha's coat-tails and good name.

Metta,
Paul.

[JamesTheGiant]

Im going through Bhante Yuttadhammos online course now. Its expected to last between 12 to 14 weeks with weekly interviews.

I've done a few Mahasi retreats, including a 20 day intensive one. Amazing!
My advice is to do Yuttadhammo's course, and not mix up what he teaches and Mahasi, even though they are similar.
When you are learning from one teacher, practise only what he teaches, until after the course is concluded in 14 weeks.
Then do whatever you like.

What does one do who wants to dedicate themselves to a practice but isnt sure where to go to find a teacher?

Take a week or two each year, to go on a formal retreat, or stay at a good monastery.
During that formal retreat time you can set up a framework for the coming year.

I find it so important to have a real life teacher or monk to ask questions, at least a few times a year. You may be a better online learner though.

[mikenz66]

Am I over-complicating the method?

Possibly. It takes a bit of getting used to. Any approach develops over years, not weeks. And James' advice is very good.

As well as Bhante Yuttadhammo's talks (which I have not actually studied, but he seems quite knowledgeable), there are some resources here:
viewtopic.php?p=6695#p6695
One of the links is to Bhikkhu Pesala's website: http://aimwell.org/ and I see you've already had some conversations with him.

I like Patrick Kearney's recordings (also linked there) as they include quite lot of Q&A, which is usually the most useful part of interactions.

Instructions based on Mahasi's approach are quite common. The initial instruction that I had was at my local Thai monastery. IMS had U Pandita and others visit in the early 80s (that's what In this very life is based on), and a number of teachers spent time as monks in Burma.


Mike

[mikenz66]

Yes, I understand that's the rationalisation provided by the Vipassana traditions, but again, that is not what the Buddha taught... hence why it is indeed the Mahasi Method, not the Buddha method.

It would be a mistake to read introductory material from any teacher and assume that they don't teach the other aspects of the Dhamma. Clearly it's not the case for Mahasi as a cursory examination of Bhikkhu Pesala's site would reveal: http://aimwell.org/mahasi.html


Mike

[retrofuturist]

Greetings Mike,

It would be a mistake to read introductory material from any teacher and assume that they don't teach the other aspects of the Dhamma. Clearly it's not the case for Mahasi as a cursory examination of Bhikkhu Pesala's site would reveal: http://aimwell.org/mahasi.html

Yes, Mahasi did appear to be well versed in the commentarial paradigm.

Metta,
Paul.

[sunnat]

Ven Mahasi method is noting but the Satipatthana method of being aware of whatever is happening at the present moment.

There is nothing more to add, You should just keep on noting whatever is arising. Just that and it leads to magga-phala.

As for the manual it's for reference purpose and is not necessary to follow, Only noting with proper mindfulness is necessary.

One shouldn't doubt the method as its a direct instruction method by the Buddha himself. Even Ven Mahasi Sayadaw attained magga-phala by this method.

A reputed arhant Ven Sunlun Sayadaw attained Sotapanna-Arhata stage by just being aware of whatever is touching the body.

Just follow noting continuously without slacking and insight knowledges will automatically arise, Your worry and restlessness about insight knowledge due to noting can be a hindrance to insight itself, you need to let go of that. Let the dhamma and noting method be your guide.

This is good advice, I would also stress the importance of trying to maintain the precepts.

and try to make contact with a teacher in the Ledi Sayadaw lineage (to which the Venerable Mahasi belongs) , for example see the internationalvipassanameditation (IMC) set up bu U Ba Khin. A number of teachers are listed. Email to make contact.

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

This is good advice, I would also stress the importance of trying to maintain the precepts.

and try to make contact with a teacher in the Ledi Sayadaw lineage (to which the Venerable Mahasi belongs) , for example see the internationalvipassanameditation (IMC) set up by U Ba Khin. A number of teachers are listed. Email to make contact.

Not as far as I know. Burmese meditation teachers have great respect for the late Venerable Ledi Sayādaw, and you will find several works by him on my website, but the Mahāsi Sayādaw’s lineage is a different one. The late Ledi Sayādaw did not teach the rising / falling method of analysis of the four elements, but used mindfulness of breathing as the primary object of contemplation.

Mingun Jetavan Sayādaw.

There is only one path to nibbāna, and that is the eightfold path as expounded in the Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta. The discourse includes several different meditation objects — the respiration, the four postures, the foul parts of the body, cemetery contemplations, and so on. A meditator may choose an object suitable for his or her temperament, and develop concentration and mindfulness using that as a basis.

[tmt93]

Take a week or two each year, to go on a formal retreat, or stay at a good monastery.
During that formal retreat time you can set up a framework for the coming year.

Is that what people usually do who practice vipassana? Seems straightforward enough. I guess coming from another tradition, Im used to just having one teacher who told you do this, and when your done come back and start something else. Its an adjustment.

[sunnat]

Re Mingun Sayadaw: a likely influence was the teachings of Ledi Sayadaw.
Personally I'm comfortable with all teaching of that lineage that I have encountered. Sure, there are differences in emphasis.