Infected by virus due to kamma ?

[asahi]

Looking at situation of pandemic present day , many buddhists attribute the peoples that get infected by virus are due to past life kamma ? Can this be supported by suttas ?

[Pondera]

Old age, sickness, and death are conditioned by being born. Although being born is a consequence of pre-existing kamma, the fact that we age, get sick and die is a more direct result of craving, grasping, becoming, and birth.

[DooDoot]

There is the case where a woman or man is one who harms beings with his/her fists, with clods, with sticks, or with knives. Through having adopted & carried out such actions, on the break-up of the body, after death, he/she reappears in the plane of deprivation... If instead he/she comes to the human state, then he/she is sickly wherever reborn. This is the way leading to sickliness: to be one who harms beings with one's fists, with clods, with sticks, or with knives.

MN 135

Therefore, all of those doctors & nurses (such as in Italy) who died during the early phase of the virus, who were trying to save people's lives in hospitals fighting an unknown disease, died because they harmed people in past lives.

[Pondera]

There is the case where a woman or man is one who harms beings with his/her fists, with clods, with sticks, or with knives. Through having adopted & carried out such actions, on the break-up of the body, after death, he/she reappears in the plane of deprivation... If instead he/she comes to the human state, then he/she is sickly wherever reborn. This is the way leading to sickliness: to be one who harms beings with one's fists, with clods, with sticks, or with knives.

MN 135

Therefore, all of those doctors & nurses (such as in Italy) who died during the early phase of the virus, who were trying to save people's lives in hospitals fighting an unknown disease, died because they harmed people in past lives.

I should have known you’d throw out a perfectly appropriate Sutta reference

[DooDoot]

I should have known you’d throw out a perfectly appropriate Sutta reference

I doubt there are other suttas in the Canon supporting MN 135 and possibly more refuting MN 135, such as:

Having approached the brahmans & contemplatives who hold that... 'Whatever a person experiences... is all caused by what was done in the past,' I said to them: 'Is it true that you hold that... "Whatever a person experiences... is all caused by what was done in the past?"' Thus asked by me, they admitted, 'Yes.' Then I said to them, 'Then in that case, a person is a killer of living beings because of what was done in the past. A person is a thief... unchaste... a liar... a divisive speaker... a harsh speaker... an idle chatterer... greedy... malicious... a holder of wrong views because of what was done in the past.' When one falls back on what was done in the past as being essential, monks, there is no desire, no effort [at the thought], 'This should be done. This shouldn't be done.' When one can't pin down as a truth or reality what should & shouldn't be done, one dwells bewildered & unprotected. One cannot righteously refer to oneself as a contemplative. This was my first righteous refutation of those brahmans & contemplatives who hold to such teachings, such views.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

[Zenny]

Looking at situation of pandemic present day , many buddhists attribute the peoples that get infected by virus are due to past life kamma ? Can this be supported by suttas ?

See this is where the concept of Karma is just misused to criticise
anybody a person wants.
People say some Hindus use Karma in this way to blame anybody that has any misfortune. Ditto some buddhists.
This is an antihuman misanthropic use of Karma.

[retrofuturist]

Greetings,

Looking at situation of pandemic present day , many buddhists attribute the peoples that get infected by virus are due to past life kamma ? Can this be supported by suttas ?

Expressed that way, it's superstitious claptrap. DooDoot is right though about the likelihood of someone being predisposed to certain things due to past kamma.

Further, if one follows the Buddha's guidance on eating and their present-life action regarding consumption prevents them from being morbidly obese, then the severity of viruses and other illnesses will be lessened by virtue of less co-morbidities.



Metta,
Paul.

[Sam Vara]

Looking at situation of pandemic present day , many buddhists attribute the peoples that get infected by virus are due to past life kamma ? Can this be supported by suttas ?

It's a perfectly valid question, but I think it might be phrased in a way that the Buddha discouraged. He said that inferring the causes of present woes and happiness as past kamma was not to be encouraged for the unenlightened, as per AN 4.77:

There are these four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about them. Which four?

"The Buddha-range of the Buddhas[1] is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.

"The jhana-range of a person in jhana...[2]

"The [precise working out of the] results of kamma...

"Conjecture about [the origin, etc., of] the world is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.

SN 36.21 points out that not everything that happens - or at least, not everything that a person experiences - can be attributed to the effects of past actions. But he is also clear that some experiences can be attributable to past actions, and this allows the possibility that some experiences (including infections) can be caused by past life kamma.

It's also worth reflecting on these suttas and also SN 35.145:

Now what, monks, is old kamma? The eye is to be seen as old kamma, fabricated & willed, capable of being felt. The ear... The nose... The tongue... The body... The intellect is to be seen as old kamma, fabricated & willed, capable of being felt. This is called old kamma.

"And what is new kamma? Whatever kamma one does now with the body, with speech, or with the intellect: This is called new kamma.

If past kamma can ever have an effect upon what happens in this life, then presumably that effect arises as caused by something in the normal order of cause and effect. There is no separate set of observable events which fit the last of the Buddha's categories of causation as per SN36.21, but do not fit any other categories of causality either specified or unspecified by the Buddha. So it seems that we can justifiably attribute being infected by a virus to the "obvious" scientific causes (exposure, immune system, replication of viral material, etc.) and also attribute that infection to past kamma. At least, there seems to be nothing which compels us to rule out that possibility.

[Aloka]

Greetings,

Looking at situation of pandemic present day , many buddhists attribute the peoples that get infected by virus are due to past life kamma ? Can this be supported by suttas ?

Expressed that way, it's superstitious claptrap. DooDoot is right though about the likelihood of someone being predisposed to certain things due to past kamma.

Further, if one follows the Buddha's guidance on eating and their present-life action regarding consumption prevents them from being morbidly obese, then the severity of viruses and other illnesses will be lessened by virtue of less co-morbidities.



Metta,
Paul.

.

[pegembara]

Looking at situation of pandemic present day , many buddhists attribute the peoples that get infected by virus are due to past life kamma ? Can this be supported by suttas ?

The infection is caused by conditions eg. in the wrong place/wrong crowd, not being vaccinated, underlying health comorbidities, bad leadership, and many many more.
Don't forget also the eating of wildlife by people. The virus doesn't distinguish whom it infects. It just wants to continue to exist just like us.
You may call this kamma but I prefer to call this conditioned phenomena.

[dharmacorps]

From a biological perspective, We are all constantly being infected by viruses, bacteria, and other microorganisms. Our genome shows vast historic effect of viruses from time immemorial. Therefore, this question is misleading and based on ignorance of biology, because viral infections in living beings are normal.

From a dhamma perspective, speculating on the origins and causes of kamma is described by the Buddha as the road to befuddlement and madness.

In sum, how we handle viruses in the present moment has to do with our own awareness, our own wisdom. Sad to say, this pandemic insidiously pushed many people past their breaking point mentally, where proper views of biology, dhamma, and wisdom are out of sight.

[Aloka]

The infection is caused by conditions eg. in the wrong place/wrong crowd, not being vaccinated, underlying health comorbidities, bad leadership, and many many more.
Don't forget also the eating of wildlife by people. The virus doesn't distinguish whom it infects. It just wants to continue to exist just like us.
You may call this kamma but I prefer to call this conditioned phenomena.

.

[cappuccino]

The virus … just wants to continue to exist just like us.

A virus is only code

[Bundokji]

If we take the virus as a trend created by media hype and irresponsible governments rather than being a major cause of serious illness and death, then the proponents of such theories must be trendy Buddhists.

What is the past kamma, what are the conditions, that causes one to be born as a trendy Buddhist? being a sheep in a previous life, or a parrot?

[cappuccino]

What is the past kamma, what are the conditions, that causes one to be born as a trendy Buddhist?

All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!

This was the last word of the Tathagata.