Can a monk refuse to teach dhamma ?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
asahi
Posts: 2732
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:23 pm

Can a monk refuse to teach dhamma ?

Post by asahi »

Would he violated his duty as a monk ? Even though he is learned in dhamma but refuse to answer dhamma question despite the fact that the follower shows sincerity and approach him several times when he is free . Does the monk lack of compassion or being selfish to impart the knowledge ?

:thanks:
No bashing No gossiping
User avatar
Coëmgenu
Posts: 8150
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:55 pm
Location: Whitby, Canada

Re: Can a monk refuse to teach dhamma ?

Post by Coëmgenu »

asahi wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:36 pmWould he violated his duty as a monk ?
I don't think there is a mandatory requirement that a monk necessary must engage in any kind of conversation, "dhamma-talk" or not, with anyone necissarily. He has to confess certain transgressions if he makes them, and that necessitates a sort of conversation, but "teaching the Dhamma," to me, implies "teaching laypeople." Obviously monks get instruction from other monks, but even in the case that one monk teaches another, I don't think that the teacher "has to" lest he violate his duties.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 22404
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am
Location: Wales

Re: Can a monk refuse to teach dhamma ?

Post by Ceisiwr »

There was an early Buddhist school that refused to teach anyone.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
asahi
Posts: 2732
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:23 pm

Re: Can a monk refuse to teach dhamma ?

Post by asahi »

Of course the monk reserve the right not to engage with anyone but he accepted when foods and moneys offered . But if he dont want to teach even though he is very learned and we are sincere , then as a buddhist in turn do not have to support him or the sangha , might as well forget about practicing .
No bashing No gossiping
User avatar
DNS
Site Admin
Posts: 17190
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, Estados Unidos de América
Contact:

Re: Can a monk refuse to teach dhamma ?

Post by DNS »

asahi wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:20 pm Of course the monk reserve the right not to engage with anyone but he accepted when foods and moneys offered . But if he dont want to teach even though he is very learned and we are sincere , then as a buddhist in turn do not have to support him or the sangha , might as well forget about practicing .
I think some people confuse a Buddhist monk's duties with those of clergy of Abrahamic religions (rabbis, priests, imams, ministers). A Buddhist monk meditates, studies, and seeks enlightenment. Teaching is reserved for only a select few. Lay people gain merit by helping the monk with his requisites and helping him attain noble levels by giving him those requisites. There are some ascetic monks who dwell in a cave and receive their alms by the cave entrance and then go back into the cave to continue their 2 year, 3 year retreat with no instruction ever given to lay people. The generous lay people gain merit with their offerings.

I knew an Abbot of a monastery and he said he only trusts a few of his monks in his temple to teach and give Dhamma talks. He said some monks can teach, if they want to, after only a couple of years in robes. He said some he wouldn't trust to teach even after they've been monks for over 10 years. Some are not ready, too lax, or some are just not the teaching-type, not good instructors and that is not a violation of any Vinaya.
Inedible
Posts: 953
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:55 am
Location: Iowa City

Re: Can a monk refuse to teach dhamma ?

Post by Inedible »

There are times when a monk is required to refuse to teach, such as when the potential student is sitting on a taller chair than his own. And I think there was something about if a woman has her hair covered. There was also mention that during the alms round was not an accepted time for teaching, but that wasn't a hard no if a person asked three times.
Bundokji
Posts: 6494
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:57 pm

Re: Can a monk refuse to teach dhamma ?

Post by Bundokji »

Lay people are under no obligation to provide food for the body to monastics, and monastics are under no obligation to give food for the mind to lay people.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
asahi
Posts: 2732
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:23 pm

Re: Can a monk refuse to teach dhamma ?

Post by asahi »

Now i started to realise why many decades since i heard peoples says Theravada are hinayana . Get it now . They have a small heart . :roll:
My friends learn from this Mahathera for more than 10 years , they said he told them the secret teaching can only be imparted to few selected monk disciple and not the lay practioners although he also teach them dhamma classes . :thinking:
No bashing No gossiping
User avatar
DNS
Site Admin
Posts: 17190
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, Estados Unidos de América
Contact:

Re: Can a monk refuse to teach dhamma ?

Post by DNS »

asahi wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:54 am Now i start to realise why many decades since i heard peoples says Theravada are hinayana . Get it now . They have a small heart . :roll:
My friends learn from this Mahathera for more than 10 years , they said he told them the secret teaching can only be imparted to few selected monk disciple and not the lay practioners although he also teach them dhamma classes . :thinking:
You are mistaken. Theravada does not have secret teachings.
`I have proclaimed the Dhamma without any idea of a hidden and open teaching. I do not have the closed fist of the teacher who holds anything back' (D.II,100). The Milindapa¤ha says that one of the marks of a good teacher is that he or she `keeps nothing secret and holds nothing back'(Mil.94).
https://www.buddhisma2z.com/content.php?id=129
User avatar
Dhammanando
Posts: 6492
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:44 pm
Location: Mae Wang Huai Rin, Li District, Lamphun

Re: Can a monk refuse to teach dhamma ?

Post by Dhammanando »

asahi wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:54 am Now i started to realise why many decades since i heard peoples says Theravada are hinayana . Get it now . They have a small heart . :roll:
My friends learn from this Mahathera for more than 10 years , they said he told them the secret teaching can only be imparted to few selected monk disciple and not the lay practioners although he also teach them dhamma classes .
But a mahāthera who claims to have a "secret teaching" would be a highly untypical and unrepresentative Theravādin.
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
asahi
Posts: 2732
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:23 pm

Re: Can a monk refuse to teach dhamma ?

Post by asahi »

Dhammanando wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:12 am But a mahāthera who claims to have a "secret teaching" would be a highly untypical and unrepresentative Theravādin.
Sure , but personally i have met at least one srilankan mahathera whom refuse to teach , one chinese mahathera choose to entertain the wealthy peoples instead of people enquiring dhamma , one chinese mahathera that said secret teaching are reserved for few selected . Surely this is how most of the Theravada monks appears to be .
No bashing No gossiping
User avatar
Dhammanando
Posts: 6492
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:44 pm
Location: Mae Wang Huai Rin, Li District, Lamphun

Re: Can a monk refuse to teach dhamma ?

Post by Dhammanando »

asahi wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:21 amSurely this is how most of the Theravada monks appears to be .
But this is plainly not the case. The great majority of Theravada monks are Asian village monks, most of whom will at the very least give a dhammadesanā to the laity on every Uposatha day, as well as funeral sermons and weekly talks to school pupils. The next largest group are city monks; of those with more than about ten rains, the majority will be full-time teachers.
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
asahi
Posts: 2732
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:23 pm

Re: Can a monk refuse to teach dhamma ?

Post by asahi »

Dhammanando wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:33 am But this is plainly not the case. ...
say if the monk are free or he happens to be giving dhamma talks and some sincere buddhist approach the monk enquiring about dhamma (eg. meaning of suffering or clinging) , if he refused to answer , would that make sense at all ? There were many such incident .
No bashing No gossiping
User avatar
retrofuturist
Posts: 27848
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Can a monk refuse to teach dhamma ?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
Ceisiwr wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:19 pm There was an early Buddhist school that refused to teach anyone.
Now there's an oxymoron.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
User avatar
JamesTheGiant
Posts: 2147
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:41 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Can a monk refuse to teach dhamma ?

Post by JamesTheGiant »

asahi wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:28 am say if the monk are free or he happens to be giving dhamma talks and some sincere buddhist approach the monk enquiring about dhamma (eg. meaning of suffering or clinging) , if he refused to answer , would that make sense at all ? There were many such incident .
Maybe the monk didn't know the answer.
Maybe the monk was tired.
Maybe the monk thought the question wasn't a good one.
Maybe the monk was annoyed/didn't like the person.
Maybe the monk was teaching something without talking.
Maybe it was an inappropriate time to ask.
Maybe the monk was forbidden from talking dhamma because of the vinaya.

These are the monks rules about when they should not teach. They are some of the 75 sekhiya rules:
Not to teach the dhamma to someone holding an umbrella (unless he is ill).
Not to teach the dhamma to someone holding a walking stick (unless he is ill).
Not to teach the dhamma to someone holding a cutting object (unless he is ill).
Not to teach the dhamma to someone holding a weapon (unless he is ill).
Not to teach the dhamma to someone who is wearing shoes (unless he is ill).
Not to teach the dhamma to someone who is wearing sandals (unless he is ill).
Not to teach the dhamma to someone who is inside a vehicle (unless he is ill).
Not to teach the dhamma to someone who is lying down (unless he is ill).
Not to teach the dhamma to someone who is sitting with the knees raised and the arms around (unless he is ill).
Not to teach the dhamma to someone wearing a turban (unless he is ill).
Not to teach the dhamma to someone whose head is covered (unless he is ill).
Not to teach the dhamma to someone who sits on a rug spread on the ground while sitting directly on the ground (unless he is ill).
Not to teach the dhamma to someone sitting at a higher level (unless he is ill).
Not to teach the dhamma to someone who is sitting while one is standing (unless he is ill).
Not to teach the dhamma to someone who is walking ahead (unless he is ill).
Not to teach the dhamma to someone who walks on a footpath while one is walking to the side of this footpath (unless he is ill).
Post Reply