The Mind of Māra and Is Samsara / Māra in itself impermanent?

[devaloka]

Hi all,

Two questions :

What drives Māra towards enforcing and guarding Samsara? Is there a reason Māra does this? What is the mind of Māra?

The other question is, is Māra an impermanent entity? If so does that mean the entirety of Samsara is impermanent? Or is Māra eternal or will the position of Māra be filled after Māra perishes? If so: is Samsara in itself and its Khandas then not eternal? And how is this reconcilable with Anicca?

Thank you

[Pondera]

Mahamoggallana was Mara at one time.

[dharmacorps]

Mara's goal is to trap people to samsara. It is a position taken up by various individuals over time. Samsara has no end unless one puts forth effort in practicing dhamma to extricate themselves from the cycles.

You can't rely on finding logical loopholes with Mara, Samsara, or Anicca I'm afraid. By generating such circuitous inquiries, you are paradoxically opening the door for Mara and his armies, one could argue.

[form]

Why did he become Mara? He practice to be Mara in his previous lives?

[devaloka]

Mara's goal is to trap people to samsara.

But for what reason? What is the motive ?

And how does the selection procedure work?

[Bundokji]

One way to think of Mara is a spiritual attainment that prevents advanced practitioners from final cessation. Within this view, Mara has little to do with normal people. As a spiritual attainment that falls short of cessation, then its subject to impermanence.

From a traditional Buddhist cosmology POV, Mara is an evil force that keeps people stuck in samsara. His ego generates pleasure when people engage in sensuality. To differentiate him from satanic forces as presented in other religions, his purpose is not to inflict harm on people, but to keep them stuck in the loophole of death and rebirth. This is why he is described as "evil".

[Dhammanando]

What is the mind of Māra?

I think the 25 discourses that make up the SN's Māra Saṃyutta probably tell you as much as you need to know about his mind and his methods.

https://legacy.suttacentral.net/sn4

The other question is, is Māra an impermanent entity?

Yes, both the office of Māra and the current office-holder are impermanent.

The office-holder is impermanent, for he's a mortal deva. The office itself outlasts the office-holder, but is impermanent nonetheless. It can only last as long as the Paranimittavasavatti heaven lasts and the said heaven gets periodically destroyed.

[sunnat]

anicca may be better understood as changing.
whatever exists in one present will be different in preceding and succeeding presents. In that sense there is a continual decomposition of whatever is and a continual composition of whatever.

[dharmacorps]

But for what reason? What is the motive ?

And how does the selection procedure work?

MN 63:

“It’s just as if a man were wounded with an arrow thickly smeared with poison. His friends & companions, kinsmen & relatives would provide him with a surgeon, and the man would say, ‘I won’t have this arrow removed until I know whether the man who wounded me was a noble warrior, a brahman, a merchant, or a worker.’ He would say, ‘I won’t have this arrow removed until I know the given name & clan name of the man who wounded me… until I know whether he was tall, medium, or short… until I know whether he was dark, ruddy-brown, or golden-colored… until I know his home village, town, or city… until I know whether the bow with which I was wounded was a long bow or a crossbow… until I know whether the bowstring with which I was wounded was fiber, bamboo threads, sinew, hemp, or bark… until I know whether the shaft with which I was wounded was wild or cultivated… until I know whether the feathers of the shaft with which I was wounded were those of a vulture, a stork, a hawk, a peacock, or another bird… until I know whether the shaft with which I was wounded was bound with the sinew of an ox, a water buffalo, a langur, or a monkey.’ He would say, ‘I won’t have this arrow removed until I know whether the shaft with which I was wounded was that of a common arrow, a curved arrow, a barbed, a calf-toothed, or an oleander arrow.’ The man would die and those things would still remain unknown to him."

[jons]

Hi all,

Two questions :

What drives Māra towards enforcing and guarding Samsara? Is there a reason Māra does this? What is the mind of Māra?

The other question is, is Māra an impermanent entity? If so does that mean the entirety of Samsara is impermanent? Or is Māra eternal or will the position of Māra be filled after Māra perishes? If so: is Samsara in itself and its Khandas then not eternal? And how is this reconcilable with Anicca?

Thank you

The Mara had the mentality of a zoo owner, and the whole samsara is a zoo. Probably all beings in the whole samsara for entertainment and it belongs Mara. So Mara makes sure that beings in the Zoo (samsara) don't go anywhere.

The zoo owner is subjected to Anicca.

My opinion
Jons

[circuit]

one of many wrongviews are to perceive Mara as a permanent being or an entity being.

Mara is not someone permanent.

Mara is all people's defilements.

Human worship their defilements.

so, Human worship Mara.

but Mara is not a permanent being. Mara is not someone .

Mara is defilements.