Do You recommend Goenka ten days Vipassana retreat?

[SarathW]

The bottom line is it is free.
So it does not cost you anything to find out it yourself with your own experience.
As I said before, it is inevitable some rogues will take over this wonderful initiative.
It can happen even to an internet Dhamma discussion forum.

If your bottom line is it's free... any of the major religions would probably suit your needs... but don't expect much sense... even in Dhamma discussion forums some posters make thousands of posts with little thought behind them... but hey... it's all free!

My bottom line is free inquiery!

[BrokenBones]

The bottom line is it is free.
So it does not cost you anything to find out it yourself with your own experience.
As I said before, it is inevitable some rogues will take over this wonderful initiative.
It can happen even to an internet Dhamma discussion forum.

If your bottom line is it's free... any of the major religions would probably suit your needs... but don't expect much sense... even in Dhamma discussion forums some posters make thousands of posts with little thought behind them... but hey... it's all free!

My bottom line is free inquiery!

Free inquiry is good... but one should be selective as to what is deserving of investigation and what is not. A thorough investigation needs to be done before committing oneself to ten days of anything... a tradition that keeps things under wraps makes it very hard for a newcomer to investigate properly and compare it with the Buddha's teachings. In hindsight, although I was duped for a long time, had I known beforehand that chakra work would be taught then maybe I wouldn't have gone.

The fixation on 'activation of anicca' through sensations in the body is just a carefully disguised take on the Hindu/Buddhist chakra systems.

The day I can 'activate anicca' is the day I put on my white robe and declare myself as God.

[Tennok]

[I used to travel to different places to somehow claim it/add it to my CV. To tell myself and others that i am an adventurous traveler

Me too! I agree, there is such form of, hmm, subtle consumerism...retreats cost, you need free time etc. I don't do them anymore, mainly becouse someone would have to work extra in my absence.

But most of retreats I did, were in my local zen sangha in the same city, dirt cheap, no traveling, sleeping in a zendo/meditation hall. Unfortunately, I had to drop from this sangha, since I got hooked with the suttas, and their main teacher had serious problems with sila and later drifted toward some new age teachings.

Anyway, I agree with most of the things you said. Just the self control topic, I believe that self awarness that comes with the practice is different than the typical daily self control, coming form following the social norm, which is often conformistic, or ego and fear driven. I used to be pretty self controling during the hard work periods of my life and pretty far from sati and sila, too.

Visiting monasteries by yourself is a great thing. I wish to do that again, but I ve heard most places are closed to visitors now.

metta and thanks

[SarathW]

I request anyone who does not recommend Goenka's Vipassana retreat to listen to the following ten-day Vipassana series video and tell why his teaching is not in line with Theravada's teaching of meditation.

[BrokenBones]

I request anyone who does not recommend Goenka's Vipassana retreat to listen to the following ten-day Vipassana series video and tell why his teaching is not in line with Theravada's teaching of meditation.

It's over an hour long... I've seen it a dozen times but I've fortunately forgotten it in its entirety... why don't you outline the video and highlight the highlights.

Have you ever sat one of the courses?

[SarathW]

I've seen it a dozen times but I've fortunately forgotten it in its entirety..

Actually I watched this perhaps twice maximum.
So what made it you to watch this dozen times by the way?

[BrokenBones]

I've seen it a dozen times but I've fortunately forgotten it in its entirety..

Actually I watched this perhaps twice maximum.
So what made it you to watch this dozen times by the way?

I've done the courses. Have you done them?

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

I posted about my experience of Goenka retreats on the Dharma Blog of Christopher Titmuss.

[SarathW]

I did my first 10-day course with Mr John Coleman in 1975, and thereafter attended numerous 10-day courses at Oakenholt Buddhist Centre with him and with other teachers. I also attended one 10-day course with Mrs Ruth Denison. She first introduced me to walking meditation, which made sitting much less painful.

After doing a few courses with Say?daw U Rewata Dhamma at Oakenholt, and one at Oaktree House, a Vipassan? community in Amberley, I went to live in Birmingham as the Say?daw’s live-in helper in 1976.

I ordained in 1979 with the Venerable Mah?si Say?daw as my preceptor when he was invited to Oakenholt by the owner U Myat Saw, with Say?daw Rewata Dhamma’s support and encouragement.

After practising both methods, I compare the Goenka method to a two-wheel drive car, which is fine on a smooth road (in a retreat centre), but not as reliable as a four-wheel drive car when off the beaten track (when not on retreat).

Emphasising only contemplation of the body and feelings is not sufficient. There are four foundations of mindfulness in the Satipatth?na Sutta, and all four should be cultivated, at least after day three, if not from the start of a 10-day retreat

The teachers should study the Suttas, and practice other meditation methods with famous meditation masters to get a broader knowledge and practical experience of the Buddha’s teachings on meditation. Then they will be more capable of tailoring their instructions to suit individual students. They should teach walking meditation, mindfulness of all daily activities (sampajañña), and if necessary, other methods such as Buddh?nussati to calm those who are over-anxious.

Anyone should be allowed to attend a 10-day retreat, regardless of their previous experience. The only rule should be that while staying there they should practise as instructed by the teacher, and let go of any other techniques they have used before.

This more tolerant approach should help more students not to become Non-returners after the first course, but to come back again and again until they become Stream-winners. Then they will become independent of any teacher.

Wow!
Thank you, Bhante.
It appears you have your first attendance about 45 years back.
Do you think they have changed the style over time?

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

I did my first 10-day course with Mr John Coleman in 1975, and thereafter attended numerous 10-day courses at Oakenholt Buddhist Centre with him and with other teachers. I also attended one 10-day course with Mrs Ruth Denison. She first introduced me to walking meditation, which made sitting much less painful.

After doing a few courses with Sayādaw U Rewata Dhamma at Oakenholt, and one at Oaktree House, a Vipassanā community in Amberley, I went to live in Birmingham as the Sayādaw’s live-in helper in 1976.

I ordained in 1979 with the Venerable Mahāsi Sayādaw as my preceptor when he was invited to Oakenholt by the owner U Myat Saw, with Sayādaw Rewata Dhamma’s support and encouragement.

After practising both methods, I compare the Goenka method to a two-wheel drive car, which is fine on a smooth road (in a retreat centre), but not as reliable as a four-wheel drive car when off the beaten track (when not on retreat).

Emphasising only contemplation of the body and feelings is not sufficient. There are four foundations of mindfulness in the Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta, and all four should be cultivated, at least after day three, if not from the start of a 10-day retreat

The teachers should study the Suttas, and practice other meditation methods with famous meditation masters to get a broader knowledge and practical experience of the Buddha’s teachings on meditation. Then they will be more capable of tailoring their instructions to suit individual students. They should teach walking meditation, mindfulness of all daily activities (sampajañña), and if necessary, other methods such as Buddhānussati to calm those who are over-anxious.

Anyone should be allowed to attend a 10-day retreat, regardless of their previous experience. The only rule should be that while staying there they should practise as instructed by the teacher, and let go of any other techniques they have used before.

This more tolerant approach should help more students not to become Non-returners after the first course, but to come back again and again until they become Stream-winners. Then they will become independent of any teacher.

Wow!
Thank you, Bhante.
It appears you have your first attendance about 45 years back.
Do you think they have changed the style over time?

All things change over time. That is a basic fact of existence. John Coleman and Ruth Denison practised with U Ba Khin. I also practised with Goenka at Igatpuri in 1979 before my ordination. Realising that there was no scope for ordination in that tradition, I switched to the Mahāsi method completely after my ordination. There is another U Ba Khin centre, Splatts House in Calne, Wiltshire. I have heard good reports of the retreats there too.

If anyone asks me what I recommend, obviously I will recommend a Mahāsi style retreat.

[SarathW]

If anyone asks me what I recommend, obviously I will recommend a Mahāsi style retreat.

I agree with you Bhante.
For a beginner is it a complete waste of time to going to the Goenka retreat?
Don't you think we learn as we go from everyone?