Mr. Seek,
It looks like you think you have found the one and only correct approach to the one and only goal that everyone has for their practice.....
chownah
Going raftless
-
- Posts: 1067
- Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:39 am
Re: Going raftless
By your tone and what you have written, I feel that Dhamma study has become a tangled web for you, and thinking about it like that will lead to more confusion.
You abandon the raft when you get to the far shore,.not before.
Until then you need the path, you need right view and all the other factors.
Without doing this preliminary work, the mind is far to conditioned to let go of much no matter your intention; subconsciously there will be clinging and craving in everything.
So practice and hold on to the path which is the raft, reinforce the path factors and letting go will happen gradually by itself.
It's not something that can just be willed and there is no way to simply jump to the end while at the beginning of the work.
You abandon the raft when you get to the far shore,.not before.
Until then you need the path, you need right view and all the other factors.
Without doing this preliminary work, the mind is far to conditioned to let go of much no matter your intention; subconsciously there will be clinging and craving in everything.
So practice and hold on to the path which is the raft, reinforce the path factors and letting go will happen gradually by itself.
It's not something that can just be willed and there is no way to simply jump to the end while at the beginning of the work.
Re: Going raftless
Despite their nature, I do appreciate the replies.
- AlexBrains92
- Posts: 1211
- Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:25 pm
Re: Going raftless
«He does not construct even the subtlest apperception with regard
to what is seen, heard or thought; how would one conceptualise
that Brahmin in this world, who does not appropriate a view?
They do not fabricate, they do not prefer, they do not accept any
doctrine; the Brahmin cannot be inferred through virtue or vows,
such a person has gone to the far shore and does not fall back.»
- Snp 4.5 -
Re: Going raftless
Mr. Seek wrote
That explains why discussions of this sort, end up in confusion. We are trying to find words for which there are no words.
Thank you for the many sutta references.
Speechless
According to the sutta "all means of speaking are done away with"Snp 5.6: "When all phenomena are done away with, all means of speaking are done away with as well."
You either get it or you don't. It's kind of subtle.
That explains why discussions of this sort, end up in confusion. We are trying to find words for which there are no words.
Thank you for the many sutta references.
Speechless
Re: Going raftless
Pulsar wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:30 pm Mr. Seek wroteAccording to the sutta "all means of speaking are done away with"Snp 5.6: "When all phenomena are done away with, all means of speaking are done away with as well."
You either get it or you don't. It's kind of subtle.
We are trying to find words for which there are no words.
How good and wonderful are your days,
How true are your ways?
How true are your ways?
- confusedlayman
- Posts: 6231
- Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:16 am
- Location: Human Realm (as of now)
Re: Going raftless
all thinking must stop... is it u saying? before origin of fabrication?Pulsar wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:30 pm Mr. Seek wroteAccording to the sutta "all means of speaking are done away with"Snp 5.6: "When all phenomena are done away with, all means of speaking are done away with as well."
You either get it or you don't. It's kind of subtle.
That explains why discussions of this sort, end up in confusion. We are trying to find words for which there are no words.
Thank you for the many sutta references.
Speechless
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
Re: Going raftless
For the many have not seen the other shore yet- such conversation about going raftless will go nowhere.
"A monk who is a trainee — yearning for the unexcelled relief from bondage, his aspirations as yet unfulfilled — directly knows earth as earth. Directly knowing earth as earth, let him not conceive things about earth, let him not conceive things in earth, let him not conceive things coming out of earth, let him not conceive earth as 'mine,' let him not delight in earth. Why is that? So that he may comprehend it, I tell you.
"He directly knows water as water... fire as fire... wind as wind... beings as beings... gods as gods... Pajapati as Pajapati... Brahma as Brahma... the luminous gods as luminous gods... the gods of refulgent glory as gods of refulgent glory... the gods of abundant fruit as the gods of abundant fruit... the Conqueror as the Conqueror... the dimension of the infinitude of space as the dimension of the infinitude of space... the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness as the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness... the dimension of nothingness as the dimension of nothingness... the dimension of neither-perception-nor-non-perception as the dimension of neither-perception-nor-non-perception... the seen as the seen... the heard as the heard... the sensed as the sensed... the cognized as the cognized... singleness as singleness... multiplicity as multiplicity... the All as the All...
"He directly knows Unbinding as Unbinding. Directly knowing Unbinding as Unbinding, let him not conceive things about Unbinding, let him not conceive things in Unbinding, let him not conceive things coming out of Unbinding, let him not conceive Unbinding as 'mine,' let him not delight in Unbinding. Why is that? So that he may comprehend it, I tell you.
That is what the Blessed One said. Displeased, the monks did not delight in the Blessed One's words.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.