Going on Tudong/Meditation in the forest

[mabw]

Hi,

Can someone do a comparison between meditating in the forest (as in like a wild forest) and in a Vihara in the city? In which setting does the meditation seem more concentrated? I sometimes just think, there are many wild and potentially dangerous/poisonous animals / insects in the forest. So my city mind assumes it hinders concentration since one is constantly having to be careful of these threats. A forest monk visited my local temple once. He says meditating in the forest is better anytime. The dangers actually trains the mind to be mindful.
He goes on Tudong in the North of Thailand, bordering Myanmar apparently. A mountainous region according to him.

Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

[circuit]

after understand how to do meditation sessions, someone go to a place that provide suitable conditions for concentration and contemplation trainings, place which don't have things usually perceived as "beautiful" "pleasant" "delightful" "agitate worldly happiness" "catch 5 sense with delight which are floods and food for defilements", someone could struggle to win over or control or overcome his mind which usually run from one to another objects and always seek something to grab. the monkey mind that someone conquer and control, which you can name it "win over yourself".

but live in forest is not easy, it's dangerous, full of risk, and someone should already know how to meditate before go to forest.

maybe for beginning someone should choose a meditation retreat near city....? maybe the situation is suitable too....

who knows

[Cause_and_Effect]

It should be when you have already some basic proficiency in meditation.
The dangers you speak of are actually a good thing within limits, to promote mindfulness.

"There is the case where a monk living in the wilderness reminds himself of this: I am now living alone in the wilderness. While I am living alone in the wilderness a snake might bite me, a scorpion might sting me, a centipede might bite me. That would be how my death would come about. That would be an obstruction for me. So let me make an effort for the attaining of the as-yet-unattained, the reaching of the as-yet-unreached, the realization of the as-yet-unrealized.

"This is the first future danger that is just enough, when considered, for a monk living in the wilderness — heedful, ardent, and resolute — to live for the attaining of the as-yet-unattained, the reaching of the as-yet-unreached, the realization of the as-yet-unrealized."

https://accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an ... .than.html

A good question would be, aside from contemplation of aging and illness what would be equivalent 'dangers that are just enough' that one would be able to subject oneself to that may spur ones practice and promote ardency while living a city life?

[The2nd]

Hi,

Can someone do a comparison between meditating in the forest (as in like a wild forest) and in a Vihara in the city? In which setting does the meditation seem more concentrated? I sometimes just think, there are many wild and potentially dangerous/poisonous animals / insects in the forest. So my city mind assumes it hinders concentration since one is constantly having to be careful of these threats. A forest monk visited my local temple once. He says meditating in the forest is better anytime. The dangers actually trains the mind to be mindful.
He goes on Tudong in the North of Thailand, bordering Myanmar apparently. A mountainous region according to him.

Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

Being aware of the threats does promote a heightened awareness which is the type of mindfulness needed for developing the mind. The carefulness regarding your environment, watching for snakes and so on is the same attitude you should have in terms of your virtue and sense restraint. Guarding your body, speech and mind from the unwholesome ativities requires the same attitude you have when you are living in a dangerous forest with poisonous creatures.

Of course, there is no need to seek out a poisonous snake, just knowing that there are poisonous snakes that could bite you is enough to develop a higher mind.

Guarding the mind from unwholesome-ness requires an awareness which is not absorbed into a narrow focus, but is fully aware of the bigger picture , so as to spot potential dangers way before they become an overwhelming problem.

Guarding the mind and protecting it in such a way , clarifies what is going on and allows for insight into all the threats that are here. The main threat being your craving and ingnorance regarding this six-sensed body.

[Alino]

My forest practice is very recent and short, but this Asalha Puja I spend in the night forest cave, and there is some lessons I've learned from it.

Without metta one can not practice is a scary environment. Why? Because fear is a product of avertion, and metta cleans our mind from avertion and thus from fear. By developing metta towards all beings it your area - these beings become your friends, you realy wish them goodness, health and peaceful, so they loose their "scaryness" for our mind. And as they become dear to your heart - you take care of them, you don't disturb them, you don't want to hurt them, and when you are friendly to them - they are friendly to you. And when you became friends with beings in the wild area you meditate - it's becomes comfortable so you can meditate here ad you was at home, peaceful and serene.

I found that general wishes don't work, only direct and open hearted ones. For exemple if you say:
"May all beings is that area (forest, cave,...) be happy" - it's possible that your wishes will be superficial and you will not experience full hearted friendliness towards beings in that area. Why? Because its to general and wide, we need to do it more personal by using "i" "you" "wish" etc...
Like you can say:
"Hello forest beings...
My name is Alino, and I came with peace
I wish you happiness
I wish you health
I wish you peace
Can you all be free from physical suffering
Can you all be free from mental suffering
Free from greed, hatred and delusion
Can all be good for you"
(You can wish all what seems to be important to your mind, in order to trigger his good aspirations, and pull them on the surface trough fear)

You need to repeat these wishes 5, 10, 50, 100 times - until your mind become friend to all beings here, until it feels deep and true friendliness to all beings here... And when your mind will realise that: oh, i realy want them to be happy - you will also realise that fear is gone, avertion is gone, your mind is pure, your heart is pure, there is no danger for your, you are amidst friends

Also you can realise that they are much more afraid of you, rather you afraid of them... And you are much more dangerous for their fragile lifes, rather they are for yours...

Also the fear itself is an very intresting emotion, because its realy strong, and its strongness makes apparent our self delusion. Its litteraly like it takes your "soul" out of you, so you can see that you are empty being and mental phenomenas don't need you in order to operate - is a wisdom. The fear can be so strong and so fast that "you" became afraid before even you realise it. If you are are attentive enought - there is a gap between reactions of fear of your body and understanding that it is a fear. You can also realise that fear is not you, and don't belongs to you, you are not actualy afraid inside of you, there is only these reactions that we call fear : breath cutting, heart beating, hair standing... and you don't chose to react like this - it just happens.

So yes defenetly it's a rich experience that you can't learn at home.

Metta must be your abiding, not the forest. With metta your mind feels at home everywhere...

[mabw]

All very insightful responses so far. Thank you. I think reading personal experiences like these are really inspiring and productive since it goes beyond theory.

[Cause_and_Effect]

My forest practice is very recent and short, but this Asalha Puja I spend in the night forest cave, and there is some lessons I've learned from it.

Without metta one can not practice is a scary environment. Why? Because fear is a product of avertion, and metta cleans our mind from avertion and thus from fear. By developing metta towards all beings it your area - these beings become your friends, you realy wish them goodness, health and peaceful, so they loose their "scaryness" for our mind. And as they become dear to your heart - you take care of them, you don't disturb them, you don't want to hurt them, and when you are friendly to them - they are friendly to you. And when you became friends with beings in the wild area you meditate - it's becomes comfortable so you can meditate here ad you was at home, peaceful and serene.

I found that general wishes don't work, only direct and open hearted ones. For exemple if you say:
"May all beings is that area (forest, cave,...) be happy" - it's possible that your wishes will be superficial and you will not experience full hearted friendliness towards beings in that area. Why? Because its to general and wide, we need to do it more personal by using "i" "you" "wish" etc...
Like you can say:
"Hello forest beings...
My name is Alino, and I came with peace
I wish you happiness
I wish you health
I wish you peace
Can you all be free from physical suffering
Can you all be free from mental suffering
Free from greed, hatred and delusion
Can all be good for you"
(You can wish all what seems to be important to your mind, in order to trigger his good aspirations, and pull them on the surface trough fear)

You need to repeat these wishes 5, 10, 50, 100 times - until your mind become friend to all beings here, until it feels deep and true friendliness to all beings here... And when your mind will realise that: oh, i realy want them to be happy - you will also realise that fear is gone, avertion is gone, your mind is pure, your heart is pure, there is no danger for your, you are amidst friends

Also you can realise that they are much more afraid of you, rather you afraid of them... And you are much more dangerous for their fragile lifes, rather they are for yours...

Also the fear itself is an very intresting emotion, because its realy strong, and its strongness makes apparent our self delusion. Its litteraly like it takes your "soul" out of you, so you can see that you are empty being and mental phenomenas don't need you in order to operate - is a wisdom. The fear can be so strong and so fast that "you" became afraid before even you realise it. If you are are attentive enought - there is a gap between reactions of fear of your body and understanding that it is a fear. You can also realise that fear is not you, and don't belongs to you, you are not actualy afraid inside of you, there is only these reactions that we call fear : breath cutting, heart beating, hair standing... and you don't chose to react like this - it just happens.

So yes defenetly it's a rich experience that you can't learn at home.

Metta must be your abiding, not the forest. With metta your mind feels at home everywhere...

That is a great description of your personal experience and practices, very valuable.

Overcoming fear is a big obstacle for many I hope many can read this and help to further their practice.

May you have many more wonderful forrest meditation experiences