Is Nibbana unnatural? unnatural?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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DooDoot
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Re: Is Nibbana unnatural? unnatural?

Post by DooDoot »

Cause_and_Effect wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:56 am Nibbana is an uncreated element and so fully part of 'nature'.

It is simply the unconditioned element, as opposed to the conditional elements we are used to as part of Samsara.
MN 1 appears to say a fool can cling to the nibbana element. Therefore, it appears if a fool clings to the nibbana element, this clinging is also samsara. SN 22.99 describes samsara as clinging to the five aggregates as self therefore it also appears clinging to the nibbana element can be part of samsara. What I am saying is your idea appears to be wrong. :smile:
But then they identify with extinguishment, they identify regarding extinguishment, they identify as extinguishment, they identify that ‘extinguishment is mine’, they take pleasure in extinguishment.

nibbānaṁ nibbānato saññatvā nibbānaṁ maññati, nibbānasmiṁ maññati, nibbānato maññati, nibbānaṁ meti maññati, nibbānaṁ abhinandati.

Why is that?

Taṁ kissa hetu?

Because they haven’t completely understood it, I say.

‘Apariññātaṁ tassā’ti vadāmi.

https://suttacentral.net/mn1/en/sujato
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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cappuccino
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Re: Is Nibbana unnatural? unnatural?

Post by cappuccino »

DooDoot wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:42 am What I am saying is your idea appears to be wrong.
Ven. Anuruddha … directed his mind to the Deathless element. Dwelling alone, secluded … he in no long time reached and remained in the supreme goal of the holy life … He knew: Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done.
~ A 3.128
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Is Nibbana unnatural? unnatural?

Post by Ceisiwr »

I'm still none the wiser as to what "natural" means here?
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
SarathW
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Re: Is Nibbana unnatural? unnatural?

Post by SarathW »

Ceisiwr wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:51 pm I'm still none the wiser as to what "natural" means here?
To me natural means. even if I do not anything and just sit doing nothing, I will eventually get somewhere.
Just like a homeless person. Say nothing, do nothing just eat something, and sleep.
:shrug:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Coëmgenu
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Re: Is Nibbana unnatural? unnatural?

Post by Coëmgenu »

So, the Dào? The action of non-action?

I'm only slightly joking. It's a serious question mostly. What you are framing as "the natural" is more like the Dào than the Buddhadhamma, to me at least.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
SarathW
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Re: Is Nibbana unnatural? unnatural?

Post by SarathW »

Coëmgenu wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:15 pm So, the Dào? The action of non-action?

I'm only slightly joking. It's a serious question mostly. What you are framing as "the natural" is more like the Dào than the Buddhadhamma, to me at least.
Perhaps.
:D
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Alino
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Re: Is Nibbana unnatural? unnatural?

Post by Alino »

Today's Yellow Page Teaching of Venerable Ajahn Jayasaro:

"Ownership is not a natural truth; it is a concept. "
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We don't live Samsara, Samsara is living us...

"Form, feelings, perceptions, formations, consciousness - don't care about us, we don't exist for them"
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