Inspired Utterances of the Buddha

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dicsoncandra
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Inspired Utterances of the Buddha

Post by dicsoncandra »

I thought it would be a great idea to have a compilation of inspiring utterances of the Buddha from the Nikāyas, hence this thread

Let me kick this off with one from SN 22.55 https://suttacentral.net/sn22.55/en/bodhi
‘It might not be, and it might not be for me; it will not be, and it will not be for me’
The Sutta itself is mind blowingly good... one of the most comprehensive Suttas I've read that encapsulates the three marks of existence, dependent origination and the hard-hitting reminder of the correct practice that leads one to liberation

One to return to for sure :reading:
arising is manifest;
ceasing is manifest;
change-while-standing is manifest.

Link to website: http://dicsonstable.blog/
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dicsoncandra
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Re: Inspired Utterances of the Buddha

Post by dicsoncandra »

On the painfulness of sense pleasures: MN 75 https://suttacentral.net/mn75/en/bodhi
“Suppose, Māgandiya, there was a leper with sores and blisters on his limbs, being devoured by worms, scratching the scabs off the openings of his wounds with his nails, cauterising his body over a burning charcoal pit. Then his friends and companions, his kinsmen and relatives, brought a physician to treat him. The physician would make medicine for him, and by means of that medicine the man would be cured of his leprosy and would become well and happy, independent, master of himself, able to go where he likes. Then two strong men would seize him by both arms and drag him towards a burning charcoal pit. What do you think, Māgandiya? Would that man twist his body this way and that?”

“Yes, Master Gotama. Why is that? Because that fire is indeed painful to touch, hot, and scorching.”

“What do you think, Māgandiya? Is it only now that that fire is painful to touch, hot, and scorching, or previously too was that fire painful to touch, hot, and scorching?”

“Master Gotama, that fire is now painful to touch, hot, and scorching, and previously too that fire was painful to touch, hot, and scorching. For when that man was a leper with sores and blisters on his limbs, being devoured by worms, scratching the scabs off the openings of his wounds with his nails, his faculties were impaired; thus, though the fire was actually painful to touch, he acquired a mistaken perception of it as pleasant.”

“So too, Māgandiya, in the past sensual pleasures were painful to touch, hot, and scorching; in the future sensual pleasures will be painful to touch, hot, and scorching; and now at present sensual pleasures are painful to touch, hot, and scorching. But these beings who are not free from lust for sensual pleasures, who are devoured by craving for sensual pleasures, who burn with fever for sensual pleasures, have faculties that are impaired; thus, though sensual pleasures are actually painful to touch, they acquire a mistaken perception of them as pleasant.
:candle: :buddha1: :candle:
arising is manifest;
ceasing is manifest;
change-while-standing is manifest.

Link to website: http://dicsonstable.blog/
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Inspired Utterances of the Buddha

Post by Ceisiwr »

dicsoncandra wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:06 pm I thought it would be a great idea to have a compilation of inspiring utterances of the Buddha from the Nikāyas, hence this thread

Let me kick this off with one from SN 22.55 https://suttacentral.net/sn22.55/en/bodhi
‘It might not be, and it might not be for me; it will not be, and it will not be for me’
The Sutta itself is mind blowingly good... one of the most comprehensive Suttas I've read that encapsulates the three marks of existence, dependent origination and the hard-hitting reminder of the correct practice that leads one to liberation

One to return to for sure :reading:
Notice the similarity to the annihilationist view. The Buddha merely modified it slightly. I noticed he used the word “exterminated” too in that sutta, but I haven’t checked the Pali.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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dicsoncandra
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Re: Inspired Utterances of the Buddha

Post by dicsoncandra »

Ceisiwr wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:01 pm
dicsoncandra wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:06 pm I thought it would be a great idea to have a compilation of inspiring utterances of the Buddha from the Nikāyas, hence this thread

Let me kick this off with one from SN 22.55 https://suttacentral.net/sn22.55/en/bodhi
‘It might not be, and it might not be for me; it will not be, and it will not be for me’
The Sutta itself is mind blowingly good... one of the most comprehensive Suttas I've read that encapsulates the three marks of existence, dependent origination and the hard-hitting reminder of the correct practice that leads one to liberation

One to return to for sure :reading:
Notice the similarity to the annihilationist view. The Buddha merely modified it slightly. I noticed he used the word “exterminated” too in that sutta, but I haven’t checked the Pali.
I think the emphasis is on the abandonment of lust, which is toward non-eternalism. It is a thin line but the tendency toward eternalism is expected given the teaching on rebirth, which would mean overlooking DO and not understanding it
arising is manifest;
ceasing is manifest;
change-while-standing is manifest.

Link to website: http://dicsonstable.blog/
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Re: Inspired Utterances of the Buddha

Post by cappuccino »

dicsoncandra wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:10 pm the abandonment of lust, which is toward non-eternalism. It is a thin line but the tendency toward eternalism
eternalism is the idea of unchanged identity from life to life


having nothing to do with eternity
Last edited by cappuccino on Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Inspired Utterances of the Buddha

Post by cappuccino »

of course we change from moment to moment


hence whatever we were, we no longer are
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Re: Inspired Utterances of the Buddha

Post by dicsoncandra »

cappuccino wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:42 pm of course we change from moment to moment


hence whatever we were, we no longer are
Has this understanding freed you from suffering (at least to an extent) or have you been merely swallowing pills? I think this is the more relevant question
arising is manifest;
ceasing is manifest;
change-while-standing is manifest.

Link to website: http://dicsonstable.blog/
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Re: Inspired Utterances of the Buddha

Post by cappuccino »

dicsoncandra wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:49 pm
cappuccino wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:42 pm of course we change from moment to moment


hence whatever we were, we no longer are
Has this understanding freed you from suffering …? I think this is the more relevant question
will Buddhism free me?


I always thought it will
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Re: Inspired Utterances of the Buddha

Post by dicsoncandra »

cappuccino wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:53 pm
dicsoncandra wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:49 pm
cappuccino wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:42 pm of course we change from moment to moment


hence whatever we were, we no longer are
Has this understanding freed you from suffering …? I think this is the more relevant question
will Buddhism free me?


I always thought it will
Great, but regardless the path of practice is one of contemplation. What does it mean to be free? Have I approached the teaching correctly? How do I understand this that I am experiencing?

Anyways
:focus:
arising is manifest;
ceasing is manifest;
change-while-standing is manifest.

Link to website: http://dicsonstable.blog/
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Re: Inspired Utterances of the Buddha

Post by DooDoot »

dicsoncandra wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:06 pm I thought it would be a great idea to have a compilation of inspiring utterances of the Buddha from the Nikāyas, hence this thread

Let me kick this off with one from SN 22.55 https://suttacentral.net/sn22.55/en/bodhi
‘It might not be, and it might not be for me; it will not be, and it will not be for me’
The Sutta itself is mind blowingly good... one of the most comprehensive Suttas I've read that encapsulates the three marks of existence, dependent origination and the hard-hitting reminder of the correct practice that leads one to liberation

One to return to for sure :reading:
Interesting sutta however:

1. The quote does not appear to be inherently related to the Buddha's teaching and I recall has been said can at most only lead to the sphere of nothingness.

2. Where does the sutta refer to dependent origination?

3. Translation of words such as 'vibhavā' & 'vibhavissati' might need to be examined.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: Inspired Utterances of the Buddha

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Ceisiwr wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:01 pm Notice the similarity to the annihilationist view. The Buddha merely modified it slightly. I noticed he used the word “exterminated” too in that sutta, but I haven’t checked the Pali.
Yes, you haven’t checked the Pali. The view is exactly an annihilationist view, which i recall is also found in that sutta where the Buddha says the annihilationist view is the foremost among outsider views.

The same view is found below:
“Mendicants, when what exists, because of grasping what and insisting on what, does the view arise:

“Kismiṁ nu kho, bhikkhave, sati, kiṁ upādāya, kiṁ abhinivissa evaṁ diṭṭhi uppajjati:

‘I might not be, and it might not be mine. I will not be, and it will not be mine’?”

‘no cassaṁ, no ca me siyā, nābhavissa, na me bhavissatī’”ti?

https://suttacentral.net/sn22.153/en/sujato
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: Inspired Utterances of the Buddha

Post by DooDoot »

dicsoncandra wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:10 pm I think the emphasis is on the abandonment of lust, which is toward non-eternalism. It is a thin line but the tendency toward eternalism is expected given the teaching on rebirth, which would mean overlooking DO and not understanding it
It appears only in the Commentaries of Buddhaghosa are eternalism & annihilationism related to "rebirth". In the suttas, they appear to be simply self-views about a self continuing and a self ending, such as:
This self is physical, made up of the four primary elements, and produced by mother and father. Since it’s annihilated and destroyed when the body breaks up, and doesn’t exist after death, that’s how this self becomes rightly annihilated.’

‘yato kho, bho, ayaṁ attā rūpī cātumahābhūtiko mātāpettikasambhavo kāyassa bhedā ucchijjati vinassati, na hoti paraṁ maraṇā, ettāvatā kho, bho, ayaṁ attā sammā samucchinno hotī’ti.

That is how some assert the annihilation of an existing being.

Ittheke sato sattassa ucchedaṁ vināsaṁ vibhavaṁ paññapenti.

https://suttacentral.net/dn1/en/sujato
“Suppose that the person who does the deed experiences the result. Then for one who has existed since the beginning, suffering is made by oneself. This statement leans toward eternalism.

“‘So karoti so paṭisaṁvedayatī’ti kho, kassapa, ādito sato ‘sayaṅkataṁ dukkhan’ti iti vadaṁ sassataṁ etaṁ pareti.

Suppose that one person does the deed and another experiences the result. Then for one stricken by feeling, suffering is made by another. This statement leans toward annihilationism.

‘Añño karoti añño paṭisaṁvedayatī’ti kho, kassapa, vedanābhitunnassa sato ‘paraṅkataṁ dukkhan’ti iti vadaṁ ucchedaṁ etaṁ pareti.

https://suttacentral.net/sn12.17/en/sujato
“Ānanda, when Vacchagotta asked me whether the self exists absolutely, if I had answered that ‘the self exists absolutely’ I would have been siding with the ascetics and brahmins who are eternalists.

“Ahañcānanda, vacchagottassa paribbājakassa ‘atthattā’ti puṭṭho samāno ‘atthattā’ti byākareyyaṁ, ye te, ānanda, samaṇabrāhmaṇā sassatavādā tesametaṁ saddhiṁ abhavissa.

When Vacchagotta asked me whether the self does not exist absolutely, if I had answered that ‘the self does not exist absolutely’ I would have been siding with the ascetics and brahmins who are annihilationists.

Ahañcānanda, vacchagottassa paribbājakassa ‘natthattā’ti puṭṭho samāno ‘natthattā’ti byākareyyaṁ, ye te, ānanda, samaṇabrāhmaṇā ucchedavādā tesametaṁ saddhiṁ abhavissa.

https://suttacentral.net/sn44.10/en/sujato
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
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Re: Inspired Utterances of the Buddha

Post by dicsoncandra »

DooDoot wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:38 am
dicsoncandra wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:06 pm I thought it would be a great idea to have a compilation of inspiring utterances of the Buddha from the Nikāyas, hence this thread

Let me kick this off with one from SN 22.55 https://suttacentral.net/sn22.55/en/bodhi
‘It might not be, and it might not be for me; it will not be, and it will not be for me’
The Sutta itself is mind blowingly good... one of the most comprehensive Suttas I've read that encapsulates the three marks of existence, dependent origination and the hard-hitting reminder of the correct practice that leads one to liberation

One to return to for sure :reading:
Interesting sutta however:

1. The quote does not appear to be inherently related to the Buddha's teaching and I recall has been said can at most only lead to the sphere of nothingness.

2. Where does the sutta refer to dependent origination?

3. Translation of words such as 'vibhavā' & 'vibhavissati' might need to be examined.
1. Oh is that so? The sutta mentioned about cutting off the five lower fetters and then on the cessation of taints though.

2. Implicitly

3. Never checked the Pāli and I wouldn't understand much at all either :D
arising is manifest;
ceasing is manifest;
change-while-standing is manifest.

Link to website: http://dicsonstable.blog/
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dicsoncandra
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Re: Inspired Utterances of the Buddha

Post by dicsoncandra »

DooDoot wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:45 am
Ceisiwr wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:01 pm Notice the similarity to the annihilationist view. The Buddha merely modified it slightly. I noticed he used the word “exterminated” too in that sutta, but I haven’t checked the Pali.
Yes, you haven’t checked the Pali. The view is exactly an annihilationist view, which i recall is also found in that sutta where the Buddha says the annihilationist view is the foremost among outsider views.

The same view is found below:
“Mendicants, when what exists, because of grasping what and insisting on what, does the view arise:

“Kismiṁ nu kho, bhikkhave, sati, kiṁ upādāya, kiṁ abhinivissa evaṁ diṭṭhi uppajjati:

‘I might not be, and it might not be mine. I will not be, and it will not be mine’?”

‘no cassaṁ, no ca me siyā, nābhavissa, na me bhavissatī’”ti?

https://suttacentral.net/sn22.153/en/sujato
Where do I start with Pāli? Would you recommend video lectures or self-reading?
arising is manifest;
ceasing is manifest;
change-while-standing is manifest.

Link to website: http://dicsonstable.blog/
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