Vinaya reform

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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asahi
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Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:23 pm

Vinaya reform

Post by asahi »

Does Buddha allow all kind of vinaya reform or just a small part ?


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circuit
Posts: 179
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:00 am

Re: Vinaya reform

Post by circuit »

imho, different place have different consensus and different interpretation about vinaya.
imho
usually lay people like to see monks performing very strict vinaya. because they feel they support monks and nuns. lay people also feel that monks are their property.
imho
so, as a reaction to lay people preference, in order to attract people's charity or support, some monasteries or group monasteries put an overcomplicated strict proliferated super vinaya 100% so that people will adore and flood the group of monasteries with gifts, charity, dana, support, and so on.
imho
but the lay people don't want to join the monasteries as monks because they realize that overcomplicated strict proliferated super vinaya 100% is impossible to be done in this era.
imho
reform on vinaya would be resisted by these group of monasteries and their supporter/ lay people. those who have different interpretation on vinaya seen as weird or bad, lost, losers, ...

afaik, in Mahaparinibbana sutta The Buddha allow reform on minor rules.

But .... which are minor rules? it depends....
chownah
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Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Vinaya reform

Post by chownah »

Seems like when the buddha was near death he said that the vinaya could dispense with minor, insignificant rules but he never said which rules those were.....it is my understanding that there was a big discussion about what rules he was talking about and no consensus could be reached so they decided to not change any of the rules.

Seems like this means that on unimportant issues the buddha was indicating that "reform" was allowed....but as they say "one man's meat is another man's poison" so there will always be disagreements on the issue of what is important and what is reformable as far as I can tell.
chownah
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Vinaya reform

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

See The Lesser and Minor Rules in the Milindapañha.

The elders of the first council could not unanimously agree on which rules they were, so none can be revoked.
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chownah
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Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Vinaya reform

Post by chownah »

circuit wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:48 pm imho, different place have different consensus and different interpretation about vinaya.
imho
usually lay people like to see monks performing very strict vinaya. because they feel they support monks and nuns. lay people also feel that monks are their property.
imho
so, as a reaction to lay people preference, in order to attract people's charity or support, some monasteries or group monasteries put an overcomplicated strict proliferated super vinaya 100% so that people will adore and flood the group of monasteries with gifts, charity, dana, support, and so on.
imho
but the lay people don't want to join the monasteries as monks because they realize that overcomplicated strict proliferated super vinaya 100% is impossible to be done in this era.
imho
reform on vinaya would be resisted by these group of monasteries and their supporter/ lay people. those who have different interpretation on vinaya seen as weird or bad, lost, losers, ...

afaik, in Mahaparinibbana sutta The Buddha allow reform on minor rules.

But .... which are minor rules? it depends....
Circuit,
Sorry that I didn't read all the way to the end of your post because you pretty much said what I posted and much more succintly!
chownah
....and bikkhuk pesala,
thanks for the link!
chownah
circuit
Posts: 179
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:00 am

Re: Vinaya reform

Post by circuit »

chownah wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:32 pm [
Circuit,
Sorry that I didn't read all the way to the end of your post because you pretty much said what I posted and much more succintly!
chownah
....and bikkhu Pesala,
thanks for the link!
chownah
Okay,

metta for all
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