non-hungry gosts

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devaloka
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:35 pm

non-hungry gosts

Post by devaloka »

Often people with (real) paranormal abilities can speak to the death and see ghosts roaming on earth

Are all ghosts on earth hungry ghosts? What about normal ghosts of deceased individuals?

Mere suffering exists, no sufferer is found;
The deed is, but no doer of the deed is there;
Nibbàna is, but not the man who enters it;
The path is, but no traveler on it is seen
BKh
Posts: 750
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Re: non-hungry gosts

Post by BKh »

Great Question! The term "hungry" does often apply to ghosts, but not all ghosts have the problem of hunger. Hunger is a result of not being generous, so an individual ghost may not be hungry since they gave in the past. But because they have done other bad karma they experience different results.

The largest collect of information we have about ghosts is in the Petavattu. You can find a complete translation on line here:
https://suttafriends.org/peta-vatthu/
You can see that they don't all have this hunger problem.

The second largest collection is in the Lakkhana Samyutta. You can read that here:
https://suttafriends.org/sn-19-lakkhana ... ut-ghosts/

Some modern people will label the Pv as non-EBT, but every orthodox Theravada tradition considers them canonical. And using the Buddha's own criterion, we can see that there is nothing in the Pv that directly contradicts the rest of the suttas and of course lots of things that are in harmony. As well, there are no new Dhamma concepts.

I believe in the Mahayana tradition they always say "hungry" when talking about ghosts.
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thomaslaw
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Location: Australia

Re: non-hungry gosts

Post by thomaslaw »

BKh wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:43 am
I believe in the Mahayana tradition they always say "hungry" when talking about ghosts.
I think this is incorrect!
devaloka
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:35 pm

Re: non-hungry gosts

Post by devaloka »

BKh wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:43 am Great Question! The term "hungry" does often apply to ghosts, but not all ghosts have the problem of hunger. Hunger is a result of not being generous, so an individual ghost may not be hungry since they gave in the past. But because they have done other bad karma they experience different results.

The largest collect of information we have about ghosts is in the Petavattu. You can find a complete translation on line here:
https://suttafriends.org/peta-vatthu/
You can see that they don't all have this hunger problem.

The second largest collection is in the Lakkhana Samyutta. You can read that here:
https://suttafriends.org/sn-19-lakkhana ... ut-ghosts/

Some modern people will label the Pv as non-EBT, but every orthodox Theravada tradition considers them canonical. And using the Buddha's own criterion, we can see that there is nothing in the Pv that directly contradicts the rest of the suttas and of course lots of things that are in harmony. As well, there are no new Dhamma concepts.

I believe in the Mahayana tradition they always say "hungry" when talking about ghosts.
Thank you very much! :D

Really impressive site aswell I did not know about suttafriends

Much appreciated ! :anjali:

Mere suffering exists, no sufferer is found;
The deed is, but no doer of the deed is there;
Nibbàna is, but not the man who enters it;
The path is, but no traveler on it is seen
2600htz
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Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:37 pm

Re: non-hungry gosts

Post by 2600htz »

Hi:

If you take ghosts as every kind of being invisible to most humans, then there should be plenty of different types.

You could say devas are ghosts, hungry shades, Gandhabbas, mental bodies, etc.

Pretty much everything in the 31 realms. Taking in consideration probably the 31 realms are just a summary of a very complex universe with endless life forms.

Regards.
BKh
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Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 12:43 am

Re: non-hungry gosts

Post by BKh »

2600htz wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:03 pm If you take ghosts as every kind of being invisible to most humans,
Petas are something very specific. I don't see any time that other non-human beings were called petas. The term yakkha is sometimes used as a general term for very powerful non-human beings. But not Petas. They are a specific realm (loka).
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Ontheway
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Re: non-hungry gosts

Post by Ontheway »

In Tirokudda Kanda,
Outside the walls they stand,
& at crossroads.
At door posts they stand,
returning to their old homes.
But when a meal with plentiful food & drink is served,
no one remembers them:
Such is the kamma of living beings.
...
For there [in their realm] there's
no farming,
no herding of cattle,
no commerce,
no trading with money.
They live on what is given here,
hungry shades
whose time here is done.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

By this, I think they are all hungry ghosts. It seems they come with various sizes and shapes.

The Thais think of it as a tall and thin entity with small needle sized mouth.
278407-qgdkh9-2.n.jpg
Peta or เปรต
Often people with (real) paranormal abilities can speak to the death and see ghosts roaming on earth
Personally, I do believe that some people (rarely) can actually see them via naked eyes. Maybe it's due to kammic link or whatever reason it is. My sister's friend (a Muslimah) in law school is one of those people. She already get used to it and just live with it. Sometimes when she talked to my sister, suddenly stopped and look away. Later she brought my sister away from that place and told her that "something terrible" is nearby with them. The way she described the ghosts are not like those people in white dress and long hair, but very gruesome, strange shape and bloody (which is quite similar to sutta description) and much like a similar space but different realm. Sometimes she just had to look away to avoid unnecessary problems. Even though in Islam, no concept of 'ghost' was taught (only 'Jinn'), still she can't denied what she saw.
Last edited by Ontheway on Sat Dec 25, 2021 5:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
justindesilva
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Re: non-hungry gosts

Post by justindesilva »

BKh wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:44 am
2600htz wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:03 pm If you take ghosts as every kind of being invisible to most humans,
Petas are something very specific. I don't see any time that other non-human beings were called petas. The term yakkha is sometimes used as a general term for very powerful non-human beings. But not Petas. They are a specific realm (loka).
Peta or preta by itself means greed. They have been greedy at the time of death of food, land, money or a lustful nature.
All others other than being greedy are either spending time on looking at a land (bahirava) or clinging with mind on a relative or a loved one or money or ornaments or a building of attachment. Hence all petas are not hiungry for food..Many buddhists give dana or make meritable activities to relieve dear ones from such lower realms also called naraka .
But yakkas are said to be old generation prople living from before buddas times and are not petas.
..
Ontheway
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Re: non-hungry gosts

Post by Ontheway »

justindesilva wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 5:25 pm
BKh wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:44 am
2600htz wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:03 pm If you take ghosts as every kind of being invisible to most humans,
Petas are something very specific. I don't see any time that other non-human beings were called petas. The term yakkha is sometimes used as a general term for very powerful non-human beings. But not Petas. They are a specific realm (loka).
Peta or preta by itself means greed. They have been greedy at the time of death of food, land, money or a lustful nature.
All others other than being greedy are either spending time on looking at a land (bahirava) or clinging with mind on a relative or a loved one or money or ornaments or a building of attachment. Hence all petas are not hiungry for food..Many buddhists give dana or make meritable activities to relieve dear ones from such lower realms also called naraka .
..
Really? Can Niraya sattas get merits that we dedicated to them? I don't think Suttas ever said that...
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
justindesilva
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Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:38 pm

Re: non-hungry gosts

Post by justindesilva »

Ontheway wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 5:29 pm
justindesilva wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 5:25 pm
BKh wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:44 am

Petas are something very specific. I don't see any time that other non-human beings were called petas. The term yakkha is sometimes used as a general term for very powerful non-human beings. But not Petas. They are a specific realm (loka).
Peta or preta by itself means greed. They have been greedy at the time of death of food, land, money or a lustful nature.
All others other than being greedy are either spending time on looking at a land (bahirava) or clinging with mind on a relative or a loved one or money or ornaments or a building of attachment. Hence all petas are not hiungry for food..Many buddhists give dana or make meritable activities to relieve dear ones from such lower realms also called naraka .
..
Really? Can Niraya sattas get merits that we dedicated to them? I don't think Suttas ever said that...
This subject is discussed in Encyclopedia in buddhism under Anumodana by W.G.Weeraratne llater edited by Malasekara.
Further there is a sutta where lord budda helps spirits to come back to human world who were born as a result of misleading the doning of a dana to a former budda, as a rift between father and sons. I hope somebody will help to find the sutta.
Transferring merits to the dead is ppractised by theravada and mahayana sects.
form
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Re: non-hungry gosts

Post by form »

Ontheway wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:52 pm In Tirokudda Kanda,
Outside the walls they stand,
& at crossroads.
At door posts they stand,
returning to their old homes.
But when a meal with plentiful food & drink is served,
no one remembers them:
Such is the kamma of living beings.
...
For there [in their realm] there's
no farming,
no herding of cattle,
no commerce,
no trading with money.
They live on what is given here,
hungry shades
whose time here is done.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

By this, I think they are all hungry ghosts. It seems they come with various sizes and shapes.

The Thais think of it as a tall and thin entity with small needle sized mouth.

278407-qgdkh9-2.n.jpgPeta or เปรต
Often people with (real) paranormal abilities can speak to the death and see ghosts roaming on earth
Personally, I do believe that some people (rarely) can actually see them via naked eyes. Maybe it's due to kammic link or whatever reason it is. My sister's friend (a Muslimah) in law school is one of those people. She already get used to it and just live with it. Sometimes when she talked to my sister, suddenly stopped and look away. Later she brought my sister away from that place and told her that "something terrible" is nearby with them. The way she described the ghosts are not like those people in white dress and long hair, but very gruesome, strange shape and bloody (which is quite similar to sutta description) and much like a similar space but different realm. Sometimes she just had to look away to avoid unnecessary problems. Even though in Islam, no concept of 'ghost' was taught (only 'Jinn'), still she can't denied what she saw.
The picture you show is a being that has a specific name in Malay folklore.
BKh
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Re: non-hungry gosts

Post by BKh »

In Tirokudda Kanda,

...hungry shades...
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

By this, I think they are all hungry ghosts.
From what I can tell, "hungry shades" is just how he's translating peta.
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form
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Re: non-hungry gosts

Post by form »

BKh wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 1:55 am
In Tirokudda Kanda,

...hungry shades...
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

By this, I think they are all hungry ghosts.
From what I can tell, "hungry shades" is just how he's translating peta.
Shades as in shadows?
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Kusala
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Re: non-hungry gosts

Post by Kusala »

devaloka wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:18 am Often people with (real) paranormal abilities can speak to the death and see ghosts roaming on earth

Are all ghosts on earth hungry ghosts? What about normal ghosts of deceased individuals?
Skip to 42:13 - 50:00 ... another interesting ghost story at @50:33 - 54:40

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Coëmgenu
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Re: non-hungry gosts

Post by Coëmgenu »

form wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 3:02 am
BKh wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 1:55 am
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

By this, I think they are all hungry ghosts.
From what I can tell, "hungry shades" is just how he's translating peta.
Shades as in shadows?
"Shades" as in "spirits of the dead." It's an old-fashioned way of saying "the dead" in English.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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