Is a sexual relationship with a legitimate partner not considered attachment (greed)?

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justindesilva
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Re: Is a sexual relationship with a legitimate partner not considered attachment (greed)?

Post by justindesilva »

SDC wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:23 pm
justindesilva wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:29 pm Sex was not a need for reproduction at the beginning (agganna sutta).
It seems the Aggañña sutta (DN 27) is describing the “the past”, “ancient lore” or “old tradition” of the brahmins. It seems the Buddha goes through the whole belief system just to conclude with the fact that none of it matters when it comes to who can practice Dhamma. I don’t think he intended it as an origin story in line with the priority or importance of the eightfold path. When he does talk about the origin of the world elsewhere in the suttas, it has nothing to do with what is found in DN 27. That is how I read it at least.
In a sermon ( utube) in 2014 , rev. Dr. Punnaji explains the purpose and solution of life explained with agganna sutta. This sutta explains that agg. Sutta was explained to two brahmins on the wrong beliefs of supremacy by vedic brahmans. The vanity of caste system of brahmins as divided to 4 classes by birth is undesired because all are born out of a mothers womb, and lord budda well explains that the supremacy in a person is established by a life of morality and not by caste. He explains that by training to be a follower of damma a lowest class being can be a noble person here and in next lives too. Here to be an aryan one has to follow the Eightfold noble path and Baradvaja and his brahmin friend decides and becomes recluses to follow the budda.
Hence agganna sutta explains the past vanity of Glory by brahmins with high details.
Let us not belittle the discorses by lord budda with our wrong views or miccaditthi.
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SDC
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Re: Is a sexual relationship with a legitimate partner not considered attachment (greed)?

Post by SDC »

justindesilva wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:07 am
SDC wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:23 pm
justindesilva wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:29 pm Sex was not a need for reproduction at the beginning (agganna sutta).
It seems the Aggañña sutta (DN 27) is describing the “the past”, “ancient lore” or “old tradition” of the brahmins. It seems the Buddha goes through the whole belief system just to conclude with the fact that none of it matters when it comes to who can practice Dhamma. I don’t think he intended it as an origin story in line with the priority or importance of the eightfold path. When he does talk about the origin of the world elsewhere in the suttas, it has nothing to do with what is found in DN 27. That is how I read it at least.
In a sermon ( utube) in 2014 , rev. Dr. Punnaji explains the purpose and solution of life explained with agganna sutta. This sutta explains that agg. Sutta was explained to two brahmins on the wrong beliefs of supremacy by vedic brahmans. The vanity of caste system of brahmins as divided to 4 classes by birth is undesired because all are born out of a mothers womb, and lord budda well explains that the supremacy in a person is established by a life of morality and not by caste. He explains that by training to be a follower of damma a lowest class being can be a noble person here and in next lives too. Here to be an aryan one has to follow the Eightfold noble path and Baradvaja and his brahmin friend decides and becomes recluses to follow the budda.
Hence agganna sutta explains the past vanity of Glory by brahmins with high details.
Let us not belittle the discorses by lord budda with our wrong views or miccaditthi.
Justin, I think you misunderstood my post. No worries.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
justindesilva
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Re: Is a sexual relationship with a legitimate partner not considered attachment (greed)?

Post by justindesilva »

SDC wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:26 pm
justindesilva wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:07 am
SDC wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:23 pm

It seems the Aggañña sutta (DN 27) is describing the “the past”, “ancient lore” or “old tradition” of the brahmins. It seems the Buddha goes through the whole belief system just to conclude with the fact that none of it matters when it comes to who can practice Dhamma. I don’t think he intended it as an origin story in line with the priority or importance of the eightfold path. When he d
Justin, I think you misunderstood my post. No worries.
Extremely sorry if I did, and quite possible.
We are trying to discuss darma, in the best of interests. With metta.
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SDC
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Re: Is a sexual relationship with a legitimate partner not considered attachment (greed)?

Post by SDC »

justindesilva wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:40 pm
SDC wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:26 pm
Justin, I think you misunderstood my post. No worries.
Extremely sorry if I did, and quite possible.
We are trying to discuss darma, in the best of interests. With metta.
:anjali:
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
Zenny
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Re: Is a sexual relationship with a legitimate partner not considered attachment (greed)?

Post by Zenny »

So you are implying that being single is the ultimate way in buddhism? Marriage is not considered a spiritual relationship?
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cappuccino
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Re: Is a sexual relationship with a legitimate partner not considered attachment (greed)?

Post by cappuccino »

Zenny wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:07 pm So you are implying that being single is the ultimate way in buddhism? Marriage is not considered a spiritual relationship?
what about divorce and paying alimony and child support


hence working all day every day for that reason
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SDC
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Re: Is a sexual relationship with a legitimate partner not considered attachment (greed)?

Post by SDC »

Zenny wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:07 pm So you are implying that being single is the ultimate way in buddhism? Marriage is not considered a spiritual relationship?
That isn’t what the OP asked. He asked if it was considered attachment or greed.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
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Re: Is a sexual relationship with a legitimate partner not considered attachment (greed)?

Post by Zenny »

cappuccino wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:11 pm
Zenny wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:07 pm So you are implying that being single is the ultimate way in buddhism? Marriage is not considered a spiritual relationship?
what about divorce and paying alimony and child support


hence working all day every day for that reason
Well the Buddha never got divorced.
And some people actually Love their partner forever.
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Zenny
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Re: Is a sexual relationship with a legitimate partner not considered attachment (greed)?

Post by Zenny »

SDC wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:20 pm
Zenny wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:07 pm So you are implying that being single is the ultimate way in buddhism? Marriage is not considered a spiritual relationship?
That isn’t what the OP asked. He asked if it was considered attachment or greed.
Well if a marriage partner is considered greed then marriage cannot be spiritual. Look at the responses so far. Seems marriage is not the way according to posters.
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SDC
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Re: Is a sexual relationship with a legitimate partner not considered attachment (greed)?

Post by SDC »

Zenny wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:33 pm
SDC wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:20 pm
Zenny wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:07 pm So you are implying that being single is the ultimate way in buddhism? Marriage is not considered a spiritual relationship?
That isn’t what the OP asked. He asked if it was considered attachment or greed.
Well if a marriage partner is considered greed then marriage cannot be spiritual. Look at the responses so far. Seems marriage is not the way according to posters.
It seems the ultimate question implied in the OP is whether or not sex with a non-illicit partner can be wholesome. According to the Buddha it can’t be. The notion of “wholesome sex” is a fantasy.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
Zenny
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Re: Is a sexual relationship with a legitimate partner not considered attachment (greed)?

Post by Zenny »

SDC wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:10 pm
Zenny wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:33 pm
SDC wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:20 pm

That isn’t what the OP asked. He asked if it was considered attachment or greed.
Well if a marriage partner is considered greed then marriage cannot be spiritual. Look at the responses so far. Seems marriage is not the way according to posters.
It seems the ultimate question implied in the OP is whether or not sex with a non-illicit partner can be wholesome. According to the Buddha it can’t be. The notion of “wholesome sex” is a fantasy.

Well that's what I said. The implication from posters is there is no such thing as spiritual marriage.
Yet the Buddha was married.
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Coëmgenu
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Re: Is a sexual relationship with a legitimate partner not considered attachment (greed)?

Post by Coëmgenu »

He left his wife to pursue the holy life.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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SDC
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Re: Is a sexual relationship with a legitimate partner not considered attachment (greed)?

Post by SDC »

Zenny wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:14 pm
SDC wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:10 pm
Zenny wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:33 pm

Well if a marriage partner is considered greed then marriage cannot be spiritual. Look at the responses so far. Seems marriage is not the way according to posters.
It seems the ultimate question implied in the OP is whether or not sex with a non-illicit partner can be wholesome. According to the Buddha it can’t be. The notion of “wholesome sex” is a fantasy.

Well that's what I said. The implication from posters is there is no such thing as spiritual marriage.
Yet the Buddha was married.
He left his wife. She eventually renounced the world and joined the monastic order, along with their son, and both became arahants. So I’m not sure I get your point.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
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Coëmgenu
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Re: Is a sexual relationship with a legitimate partner not considered attachment (greed)?

Post by Coëmgenu »

Now he's going to say that they were a happy Arhant couple, IMO. The problem is that Arhants aren't "couples."
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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SDC
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Re: Is a sexual relationship with a legitimate partner not considered attachment (greed)?

Post by SDC »

Coëmgenu wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:35 pm Now he's going to say that they were a happy Arhant couple, IMO. The problem is that Arhants aren't "couples."
Probably, but I’m more interested in what’s implied in Zenny’s posts as opposed to what he actually says. :D
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
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