Difference between reproduction and conception

[auto]

Teachings grouped into fours explained by the Buddha,

Four kinds of reproduction:
Catasso yoniyo—
reproduction for creatures born from an egg, from a womb, from moisture, or spontaneously.
aṇḍajayoni, jalābujayoni, saṁsedajayoni, opapātikayoni.

Four kinds of conception.
Catasso gabbhāvakkantiyo.
Someone is unaware when conceived in their mother’s womb, unaware as they remain there, and unaware as they emerge. This is the first kind of conception.
Idhāvuso, ekacco asampajāno mātukucchiṁ okkamati, asampajāno mātukucchismiṁ ṭhāti, asampajāno mātukucchimhā nikkhamati, ayaṁ paṭhamā gabbhāvakkanti.
Furthermore, someone is aware when conceived in their mother’s womb, but unaware as they remain there, and unaware as they emerge. This is the second kind of conception.
Puna caparaṁ, āvuso, idhekacco sampajāno mātukucchiṁ okkamati, asampajāno mātukucchismiṁ ṭhāti, asampajāno mātukucchimhā nikkhamati, ayaṁ dutiyā gabbhāvakkanti.
...

Brahmin doctrine of ancestry,

An embryo is conceived when these three things come together—the mother and father come together, the mother is in the fertile part of her menstrual cycle, and the spirit being reborn is present.’
Idha mātāpitaro ca sannipatitā honti, mātā ca utunī hoti, gandhabbo ca paccupaṭṭhito hoti; evaṁ tiṇṇaṁ sannipātā gabbhassa avakkanti hotī’ti.

Some might think that the spirit what is about to be reborn is sperm, but could sperm have awareness?
Jokes aside, it seem one is conceived in the afterlife before one passes away.

Four kinds of reincarnation.
Cattāro attabhāvapaṭilābhā.
There is a reincarnation where only one’s own intention is effective, not that of others.
Atthāvuso, attabhāvapaṭilābho, yasmiṁ attabhāvapaṭilābhe attasañcetanāyeva kamati, no parasañcetanā.
..

Initially i thought then that the reincarnation is within one's life, it is, but the first one is called conception and is "inside out" that you are the one who is conceived.

Discuss the mechanics of how one goes from one life to another or have some other thoughts, ideas about this subject?

[circuit]

...

how one goes from one life to another ...

there is no atta (self) in 5 aggregates of clingings, so
it's not a same "one" , there is no atta going from this life to another life , it's only a circle of trans-form-ation , form to another form, and the wrongviewed-contaminated-mind-seed which longing for next-life can be attracted by these form to form cyclus,

on the other side, the Enlightened ones (Buddha, Paccekabuddha, Savakabuddha) already let go all seed, all contamination, all wrongviews , already let go clingings to form and mind, cannot be attracted by samsara-cyclus, because they already know that samsara-cyclus is full of "shit" (dukkha).

The Dhamma taught by The Buddha is Nibbāna.

[DooDoot]

Teachings grouped into fours explained by the Buddha,

There is no evidence the Buddha explained the below. They are only writings in books.

Four kinds of reproduction:
Catasso yoniyo—
reproduction for creatures born from an egg, from a womb, from moisture, or spontaneously.
aṇḍajayoni, jalābujayoni, saṁsedajayoni, opapātikayoni.

MN 12 says:

And what is spontaneous reproduction?
Katamā ca, sāriputta, opapātikā yoni?

Gods, hell-beings, certain humans, and certain beings in the lower realms.
Devā, nerayikā, ekacce ca manussā, ekacce ca vinipātikā—

This is called spontaneous reproduction.
ayaṁ vuccati, sāriputta, opapātikā yoni.

So what type of "reproduction" occurs to those born in the lower realms, such as hell? Are there women in hell who give birth to evil doers in hell?

Four kinds of conception.
Catasso gabbhāvakkantiyo.
Someone is unaware when conceived in their mother’s womb, unaware as they remain there, and unaware as they emerge. This is the first kind of conception.
Idhāvuso, ekacco asampajāno mātukucchiṁ okkamati, asampajāno mātukucchismiṁ ṭhāti, asampajāno mātukucchimhā nikkhamati, ayaṁ paṭhamā gabbhāvakkanti.
Furthermore, someone is aware when conceived in their mother’s womb, but unaware as they remain there, and unaware as they emerge. This is the second kind of conception.
Puna caparaṁ, āvuso, idhekacco sampajāno mātukucchiṁ okkamati, asampajāno mātukucchismiṁ ṭhāti, asampajāno mātukucchimhā nikkhamati, ayaṁ dutiyā gabbhāvakkanti.
...

The word "āvakkanti" means "to enter". For example, there are suttas (eg. SN 12.64) that refer to the "āvakkanti" of nama-rupa.

Since MN 64 says it is not possible for a new born child to have self-identity, it appears the suttas referring to sati-sampajanna in the womb, such as MN 123, are fake dhamma.

Brahmin doctrine of ancestry,

An embryo is conceived when these three things come together—the mother and father come together, the mother is in the fertile part of her menstrual cycle, and the spirit being reborn is present.’
Idha mātāpitaro ca sannipatitā honti, mātā ca utunī hoti, gandhabbo ca paccupaṭṭhito hoti; evaṁ tiṇṇaṁ sannipātā gabbhassa avakkanti hotī’ti.

yes, it is Brahmin doctrine of ancestry.

Some might think that the spirit

"Spirit"...

Four kinds of reincarnation.
Cattāro attabhāvapaṭilābhā.
There is a reincarnation where only one’s own intention is effective, not that of others.
Atthāvuso, attabhāvapaṭilābho, yasmiṁ attabhāvapaṭilābhe attasañcetanāyeva kamati, no parasañcetanā.
..

attabhāva does not mean "reincarnation". we had a long topic on attabhāva here

Discuss the mechanics of how one goes from one life to another or have some other thoughts, ideas about this subject?

the above appears to be speculation based on poor translations.......

[DooDoot]

Four kinds of reincarnation.
Cattāro attabhāvapaṭilābhā.
There is a reincarnation where only one’s own intention is effective, not that of others.
Atthāvuso, attabhāvapaṭilābho, yasmiṁ attabhāvapaṭilābhe attasañcetanāyeva kamati, no parasañcetanā.
..

Proper translation of the above is:

Four methods of acquiring new personality, to wit, (1) in which our own volition works, not another’s, (2) in which another’s volition works, not ours, (3) in which both our own and another’s volition work, (4) in which the volition of neither works.

https://suttacentral.net/dn33/en/tw-caf_rhysdavids

For example, imagine your parents want you to be a tennis star and push you from childhood to practise tennis. You acquire a personality (individual character) based primarily on the volition of others. This is not a joke.

[auto]

...

how one goes from one life to another ...

there is no atta (self) in 5 aggregates of clingings, so
it's not a same "one" , there is no atta going from this life to another life , it's only a circle of trans-form-ation , form to another form, and the wrongviewed-contaminated-mind-seed which longing for next-life can be attracted by these form to form cyclus,

on the other side, the Enlightened ones (Buddha, Paccekabuddha, Savakabuddha) already let go all seed, all contamination, all wrongviews , already let go clingings to form and mind, cannot be attracted by samsara-cyclus, because they already know that samsara-cyclus is full of "shit" (dukkha).

The Dhamma taught by The Buddha is Nibbāna.

Brahma doesn't reborn, but still have rebirth-fetter(bhava), the reason why brahma won't reborn is because of cultivating longevity by not committing to the kamma based on greed, hatred and delusion(nekkhamma).

No-selfers usually prefer taking a position that there is no atta at all, that the 5 aggregates are all that there is. Not even taking into account the Suttas what tell that the consciousness is involved with the 4 aggregates, nor commentaries what tell about lokuttara: path and fruit consciousnesses what are not part of the desire, form and formless realms.

As long as consciousness remains, it would remain involved with form, supported by form, founded on form. And with a sprinkle of relishing, it would grow, increase, and mature.
Rūpupayaṁ vā, bhikkhu, viññāṇaṁ tiṭṭhamānaṁ tiṭṭheyya, rūpārammaṇaṁ rūpappatiṭṭhaṁ nandūpasecanaṁ vuddhiṁ virūḷhiṁ vepullaṁ āpajjeyya.

I wonder how they do jhāna. Do they skip to the wisdom and realize things by taking(declaring) positions like 'there is no self'?

If a mendicant has given up greed for the form element, the support is cut off, and there is no foundation for consciousness.
Rūpadhātuyā ce, bhikkhu, bhikkhuno rāgo pahīno hoti. Rāgassa pahānā vocchijjatārammaṇaṁ patiṭṭhā viññāṇassa na hoti.
..
consciousness element, the support is cut off, and there is no foundation for consciousness.
viññāṇadhātuyā ce, bhikkhu, bhikkhuno rāgo pahīno hoti. Rāgassa pahānā vocchijjatārammaṇaṁ patiṭṭhā viññāṇassa na hoti.

[auto]

So what type of "reproduction" occurs to those born in the lower realms, such as hell? Are there women in hell who give birth to evil doers in hell?

Like the Sutta said, spontaneous(without parents).
Haven't you heard Nasa said about aliens appearing and disappearing from existence? imagine you already have appeared but are also in your previous existence.

The word "āvakkanti" means "to enter". For example, there are suttas (eg. SN 12.64) that refer to the "āvakkanti" of nama-rupa.

Sometimes things are so small that they make up a stream. I think you can watch into inclination and see namarupa or beings there.

Since MN 64 says it is not possible for a new born child to have self-identity, it appears the suttas referring to sati-sampajanna in the womb, such as MN 123, are fake dhamma.

I think your fake dhamma memorandums are caused by mind has closed off for certain things what acceptance would entail responsibilities what you are too lazy to take upon oneself. I used to tell elders to start practice, they tell they are too old but that is just an excuse.

yes, it is Brahmin doctrine of ancestry.

Humans are defined by their actions. They can't be brahmins by birth. These brahmins don't know their own doctrine. Which means the brahmins doctrine at question is correct, minus the brahmin by birth possibility part what is inferred by these brahmins.

[auto]

.

You can believe that and ignore the notion of this life or next life. Deliberately not taking into account what is written in Suttas or just having no brains yet, is why Abhidhamma comes useful as it focuses for you what are not noticed what is written in the Suttas. But there are still strong opinions against Abhidhamma that it writes things what aren't in Suttas.

Any deed that emerges from greed—born, sourced, and originated from greed—ripens where that new life-form is born.
Yaṁ, bhikkhave, lobhapakataṁ kammaṁ lobhajaṁ lobhanidānaṁ lobhasamudayaṁ, yatthassa attabhāvo nibbattati tattha taṁ kammaṁ vipaccati.
And wherever that deed ripens, its result is experienced—either in the present life, or in the next life, or in some subsequent period.
Yattha taṁ kammaṁ vipaccati tattha tassa kammassa vipākaṁ paṭisaṁvedeti, diṭṭhe vā dhamme upapajja vā apare vā pariyāye.

[circuit]

.

The Buddha scolded and condemned bhikkhu Saati's wrongview about "this very same consciousness" transmigrate from past life to next life, the very same consciousness transmigrate from life to life, which is wrongview. Because consciousness according to Buddha's teaching is very short duration, yes consciousness is part of 4 aggregates But it's not eternal "same" consciousness. Consciousness is very short lived, new consciousness arise up when older consciousness break down, newer consciousness arise up when older consciousness break down, this process repeated over and over again. so it's impermanent, it's unsatisfactoriness, not eternal, and because this process can not be altered , can't help , so it's not atta, it's not-self. it's only nature, process, so they are only phenomenas, not-self.

The best choice that Buddha offered to all is to experience Nibbāna.

Nibbāna is eternal, nobody comes and nobody goes, nobody enters and nobody leaves, nobody possesses Nibbāna, Nibbāna is that that experienced by Buddhas, Paccekabuddhas, Savakabuddhas, and Ariyas. After experienced Nibbāna, there is no thxxe thxxxs.

[auto]

.

It feels quite good to attain new type of concentration what i haven't been able to get my hands on before, and is a result of developing the mind.
This concentration is the consciousness what arises dependent on the eye and form. I understand that it doesn't roam through birth and deaths, it is developed and arises as different. I am counting on the belief that i don't met with certain experiences, because when these scenes(with a distinct taste) arise in my mind, they cause bad feelings and fear if i think i have to experience them through sense organs.

[auto]

.

Man creates(by his own deeds) a lifeform(attabhāva).
And where this lifeform ripens(where's ones intent is effective or someone else's..) he falls into suffering, suffering is the dependent origination links after rebirth: old age, illness, death.

These verses explain one and the same thing in three ways,

“A man goes on plundering
“Vilumpateva puriso,
as long as it serves his ends.
yāvassa upakappati;
But as soon as others plunder him,
Yadā caññe vilumpanti,
the plunderer is plundered.
so vilutto viluppati.
Variant: viluppati → vilumpati (bj, sya-all, pts1ed, pts2ed, mr)

For the fool thinks they’ve got away with it
Ṭhānañhi maññati bālo,
so long as their wickedness has not ripened.
yāva pāpaṁ na paccati;
But as soon as that wickedness ripens,
Yadā ca paccati pāpaṁ,
they fall into suffering.
atha dukkhaṁ nigacchati.

A killer creates a killer;
Hantā labhati hantāraṁ,
Variant: labhati → labhati hantā (sya-all, km)
a conqueror creates a conqueror;
jetāraṁ labhate jayaṁ;
an abuser creates abuse,
Akkosako ca akkosaṁ,
and a bully creates a bully.
rosetārañca rosako;
And so as deeds unfold
Atha kammavivaṭṭena,
the plunderer is plundered.”
so vilutto viluppatī”ti.

I think the tennis example you gave is due poor reading. Attabhāva and its ripening have switched positions. It seem you don't believe kamma produces attabhāva.

[auto]

Comparing these two we see how rebirth isn't necessarily ordinary physical one. It is possible that the rebirth correlated with a day and night circle.

“Listen, has that monastery worker I promised been provided?”
“yo mayā, bhaṇe, ayyassa ārāmiko paṭissuto, dinno so ārāmiko”ti?

“No, sir, he hasn’t.”
“Na kho, deva, ayyassa ārāmiko dinno”ti.

“How long is it since we made that promise?”
“Kīva ciraṁ nu kho, bhaṇe, ito hi taṁ hotī”ti? Variant: ito → ito ratti (si, sya-all)

The official counted the days and said,
Atha kho so mahāmatto rattiyo gaṇetvā rājānaṁ māgadhaṁ seniyaṁ bimbisāraṁ etadavoca— Variant: gaṇetvā → vigaṇetvā (bj, pts1ed)
“It’s five hundred days.”
“pañca, deva, rattisatānī”ti.

In one case it is 500 days and in other it is 500 rebirth. From some Sutta we can learn that one is brahmin by ones deeds not by birth. I think it is ones own deed produces attabhava what reincarnates.

“Mendicants, don’t complain about the mendicant Vaccha.
“mā kho tumhe, bhikkhave, vacchassa bhikkhuno ujjhāyittha.
He doesn’t addresses the mendicants as ‘lowlifes’ out of hate.
Na, bhikkhave, vaccho dosantaro bhikkhū vasalavādena samudācarati.
For five hundred lives without interruption he was reborn in a brahmin family.
Vacchassa, bhikkhave, bhikkhuno pañca jātisatāni abbokiṇṇāni brāhmaṇakule paccājātāni.

this could be because it took 500 days for the King to finally remember the promise done for the vaccho in the past.

For a long time, he has addressed people as ‘lowlife’.
So tassa vasalavādo dīgharattaṁ samudāciṇṇo. Variant: samudāciṇṇo → ajjhāciṇṇo (sya-all, pts-vp-pli1, mr aṭṭhakathāyaṁ pāṭhantaraṁ)
That’s why he addresses the mendicants as ‘lowlifes’.”
Tenāyaṁ vaccho bhikkhū vasalavādena samudācaratī”ti.