on killing insects.....

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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DooDoot
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Re: on killing insects.....

Post by DooDoot »

48vows wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:56 am You cited one here -

viewtopic.php?p=639029#p639029
Sorry but i can't keep editing translations. The word "sentient" does not exist in the Pali above. Regards :)
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Hari46
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Re: on killing insects.....

Post by Hari46 »

confusedsoso wrote: Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:34 am Is it wrong in theravada buddhism killing insects. I think I saw somewhere that killing insects is wrong bodily actions in theravada buddism. I am confused on this topic. Please help me. Thanks in advance.
Dear friend,
Metta🙏
I had same doubt because we have heard Krishna stories in war from young age , Krishna suggesting Arjun not to walk away from war beacuse he wanted to avoid killing.

1.What I have found helpful in understanding this is that perecpts are about developing a calm/pleasant mind and
More about our safety aswell ( for the one who wants to follow Buddha's method/technique for liberation).

2.When following Buddhas method - it'll take you through different experiences/places where if your mind is not still/calm/pleasant it might end up in difficult situations which are risky,
But if your mind is calm/still/pleasant which is a part of consequence of following the perecpt of not killing ,then
when overpowered by a difficult situation the perecpts/calm/pleasant mind helps you to pass through them with more ease.

3.We can agree that if you live in an area where there are large number of flies then you take the risk.

4.How to avoid risk -
You can Chant the parittas which are said to protect you from animals/dangers - I have not personally verified this yet, as I am just learning them now.
I don't know if this works on flies aswell.(someone who has verified this can throw some light on this pls).

(Swami Rama talks about how a yogi/person avoids harm from animals when they stay/move in forests - he says the teacher provides the student with chants that keeps animals/dangers away from the monk/layperson.)

5.It is just like- Buddha gave a tool and instructions on how to handle the tool and safety precautions to be followed.( If this example helps - it is like Buddha saying Please keep the lights of your bike on before traveling at night, yes we can ride the bike without light but how far can we go.)

Please before practising do follow the prerequisites and practise for some time and check if you get the results.
Metta
confusedsoso
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Re: on killing insects.....

Post by confusedsoso »

Most people have innate goodness in them which prevents them from killing another human, even Hitler. It's the form which matters more. There's already plenty of superhero kind of show which shows the great remorse, grief at a superhero first time crossing the line to kill the villain. Jessica Jones season 2 is a prime example. She kept on having the first season bad guy in her head even if she did saved a lot of people by killing Kilgrave.


Yes I do think most people have an instinct not to be able to kill another human being.
confusedsoso
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Re: on killing insects.....

Post by confusedsoso »

I had same doubt because we have heard Krishna stories in war from young age , Krishna suggesting Arjun not to walk away from war beacuse he wanted to avoid killing.


Yes I have also heard of this story about Krishna and Arjun in hinduism. I dont know if its compatible with theravada buddhism.
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Nicolas
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Re: on killing insects.....

Post by Nicolas »

DooDoot wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:39 am A Dhamma-Follower does not kill insects or Adolf Hilter.
retrofuturist wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 12:50 am It's been confirmed that yes, killing is against the first precept in Theravada Buddhism.
:goodpost:
the end
Cause_and_Effect
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Re: on killing insects.....

Post by Cause_and_Effect »

Not killing requires discernment sometimes.
For example my house was invaded by hundreds of large ants, in the past I would have bought some ant killer which they eat and then take back to the colony which kills them.

Now I simply put a large container and a few drops of sugar or honey. Within hours there are many gathered there and can be easily removed.
Otherwise stray ones can be picked up with a tissue and placed outside.

Keeping the precepts in general in an excercise in mindulness and discernment, having an intention is not enough it is when it is tested that shows your precepts.
"Therein monks, that Dimension should be known wherein the eye ceases and the perception of forms fades away...the ear... the nose...the tongue... the body ceases and the perception of touch fades away...

That Dimension should be known wherein mentality ceases and the perception of mind-objects fades away.
That Dimension should be known; that Dimension should be known."


(S. IV. 98) - The Dimension beyond the All
bpallister
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Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2021 2:13 am

Re: on killing insects.....

Post by bpallister »

i think i killed an ant this morning by mistake. he was in the sink and i was running the water, trying not to hit him but i got him. i dumped him in the trash and he was still moving, so i'm not sure if he made it or not.
Donnyy
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Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 4:14 am

Re: on killing insects.....

Post by Donnyy »

Hari46 wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 11:38 am
confusedsoso wrote: Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:34 am Is it wrong in theravada buddhism killing insects. I think I saw somewhere that killing insects is wrong bodily actions in theravada buddism. I am confused on this topic. Please help me. Thanks in advance.
Dear friend,
Metta🙏
I had same doubt because we have heard Krishna stories in war from young age , Krishna suggesting Arjun not to walk away from war beacuse he wanted to avoid killing.

1.What I have found helpful in understanding this is that perecpts are about developing a calm/pleasant mind and
More about our safety aswell ( for the one who wants to follow Buddha's method/technique for liberation).

2.When following Buddhas method - it'll take you through different experiences/places where if your mind is not still/calm/pleasant it might end up in difficult situations which are risky,
But if your mind is calm/still/pleasant which is a part of consequence of following the perecpt of not killing ,then
when overpowered by a difficult situation the perecpts/calm/pleasant mind helps you to pass through them with more ease.

3.We can agree that if you live in an area where there are large number of flies then you take the risk.

4.How to avoid risk -
You can Chant the parittas which are said to protect you from animals/dangers - I have not personally verified this yet, as I am just learning them now.
I don't know if this works on flies aswell.(someone who has verified this can throw some light on this pls).

(Swami Rama talks about how a yogi/person avoids harm from animals when they stay/move in forests - he says the teacher provides the student with chants that keeps animals/dangers away from the monk/layperson.)

5.It is just like- Buddha gave a tool and instructions on how to handle the tool and safety precautions to be followed.( If this example helps - it is like Buddha saying Please keep the lights of your bike on before traveling at night with it, yes we can ride the bike without light but how far can we go.)

Please before practising do follow the prerequisites and practise for some time and check if you get the results.
Metta
In any case, we must not harm the living, including insects. But what if I accidentally killed them? She stepped on the street, crushed her with her hand - many situations ... But many do not even know that they kill insects. What to do in such a situation?
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Nicolas
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Re: on killing insects.....

Post by Nicolas »

Donnyy wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 3:11 am In any case, we must not harm the living, including insects. But what if I accidentally killed them? She stepped on the street, crushed her with her hand - many situations ... But many do not even know that they kill insects. What to do in such a situation?
Bhikkhu Vibhaṅga, Pācittiya 61 wrote: ‘If a monk intentionally kills a living being, he commits an offense entailing confession.’
[...]
There is no offense: if it is unintentional; if he is not mindful; if he does not know; if he is not aiming at death; if he is insane; if he is the first offender.
Jinny999
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Re: on killing insects.....

Post by Jinny999 »

Yes, killing insects is bad kamma. But killing bigger animals is more bad kamma. Both breaks the 1st preceot.
Cause_and_Effect
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Re: on killing insects.....

Post by Cause_and_Effect »

confusedsoso wrote: Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:34 am Is it wrong in theravada buddhism killing insects. I think I saw somewhere that killing insects is wrong bodily actions in theravada buddism. I am confused on this topic. Please help me. Thanks in advance.
Yes it's against the precept.
There are levels to it though.
I have heard that for example Thai monks will tolerate even getting Malaria for the sake of not killing 🦟 mosquitos.
I am not at that level however.
"Therein monks, that Dimension should be known wherein the eye ceases and the perception of forms fades away...the ear... the nose...the tongue... the body ceases and the perception of touch fades away...

That Dimension should be known wherein mentality ceases and the perception of mind-objects fades away.
That Dimension should be known; that Dimension should be known."


(S. IV. 98) - The Dimension beyond the All
thepea
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Re: on killing insects.....

Post by thepea »

confusedsoso wrote: Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:34 am Is it wrong in theravada buddhism killing insects. I think I saw somewhere that killing insects is wrong bodily actions in theravada buddism. I am confused on this topic. Please help me. Thanks in advance.
No, it’s self defence in most cases.
Needless destruction is bad kamma.
whynotme
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Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:52 am

Re: on killing insects.....

Post by whynotme »

confusedsoso wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:28 am I had same doubt because we have heard Krishna stories in war from young age , Krishna suggesting Arjun not to walk away from war beacuse he wanted to avoid killing.

Yes I have also heard of this story about Krishna and Arjun in hinduism. I dont know if its compatible with theravada buddhism.
War should be when it needed to save ppl or to free ppl. It's the responsibility of the leadership of the land and the soldiers to protect ppl lives, it's their social contract. So when the leaders give up their duty and let ppl get killed, it can be considered indirectly killing by lacking responsibility.

War should not be aim to kill ppl but it is necessary in rightly conditions. Don't be naive on the opposition or their will not give a chance for ppl to survive.

Even in the Buddha time, many righteous kings still do it while being his followers, and the Buddha had no problem with it. Be careful the non violence sometimes it's a trick do win a war cheaply. Non violence and peace are needed but should be consider the situation, non violence in every situations is dumb.

It's better for the wise to win a war by violence than the dumb to win by non violence, because for anything, the wise have the ability to change or fix it better.

Buddhism doesn't suppressing life, but overcomes it. Whichever needed in life, Buddhism doesn't opposite it. To overcome war, it needs a better solution. When a better solution can not be found, then war is needed and justified.

So, I guess the order should be like this, if war is avoidable then it should. When it can not then it should be done in the least harmful possible, e.g. without killing. When killing is unavoidable then it should be done with minimal death possible..

So always try to get the best possible solution, then there's no blame on anything. It's worldly business, what should ppl hoping for? After all, it's the kamma of the ppl, and nature will arrange it in it's own way.
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