Abhidhamma historical origins
Re: Abhidhamma historical origins
Ven. Saṃghabhadra makes a similar argument, in that illusions and mirages are always based on real existents.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: Abhidhamma historical origins
It started during the second half of the video. When he answering questions from the Tibetan monks.Ceisiwr wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:53 pmCan you tell us which bit in the video he discusses these things?Ontheway wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:57 pm Wasn't related to OP, but seeing some posts here discussing topic related to early schools and Mahayana, I would like to share a Bhikkhu Bodhi's Dhamma sharing video:
In this video, he talks about the interaction between Nagarjuna and Sarvastivada, and also discuss some Mahayana scriptures such as Heart Sutra.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.
https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.
https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
Re: Abhidhamma historical origins
44 minutes onwards.Ontheway wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:26 pmIt started during the second half of the video. When he answering questions from the Tibetan monks.Ceisiwr wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:53 pmCan you tell us which bit in the video he discusses these things?Ontheway wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:57 pm Wasn't related to OP, but seeing some posts here discussing topic related to early schools and Mahayana, I would like to share a Bhikkhu Bodhi's Dhamma sharing video:
In this video, he talks about the interaction between Nagarjuna and Sarvastivada, and also discuss some Mahayana scriptures such as Heart Sutra.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: Abhidhamma historical origins
But I must say the topic did not went deep. I just posted here if in case anyone want to see what Bhikkhu Bodhi says about it.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.
https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.
https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
Re: Abhidhamma historical origins
It contradicts, as literally posted.
No. Death of beings leads to dukkha. Anicca, Dukkha and Anatta lead to liberation. Death is not anicca.
SN 22.85 says Arahant aggregates are anicca. SN 22.85 says Arahant does not die. Impermanence is not death. Death is not impermanence. Death is the state of the fool.
21. Heedfulness is the path to the Deathless. Heedlessness is the path to death. The heedful die not. The heedless are as if dead already.
Dhammapada
For it is death in the training of the Noble One to resign the training and return to a lesser life.
Maraṇañhetaṁ, sunakkhatta, ariyassa vinaye yo sikkhaṁ paccakkhāya hīnāyāvattati;
MN 105
Sujato & Brahmali said on SC Bhikkhu Bodhi translated "kamabhava" in SN 12.2 incorrectly. Sujato & Brahmali were correct about Bhikkhu Bodhi being wrong & mistaken.
Bhikkhu Bodhi, similar to Abhidhamma, appears to believe "bhava" is a "life" rather than an "asava".VBB wrote:And what, bhikkhus, is existence? There are these three kinds of existence: sense-sphere existence, form-sphere existence, formless-sphere existence. This is called existence.
https://suttacentral.net/sn12.2/en/bodhi
Last edited by DooDoot on Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:32 am, edited 6 times in total.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
Re: Abhidhamma historical origins
This isn't Bhikkhu Bodhi's view. Bhikkhu Bodhi, being a scholar, goes over this aspect of the origin story of the Abhidhamma (of being teachings given to devas by the Buddha, and passed down to Sāriputta), for the purpose of mentioning it to the reader.Nobodyisspecial wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 4:31 pm It has come to my attention Bhikkhu Bodhi's view of the supposed Abhidhamma origin that he calls legend of the Buddha, when he was teaching Abhidhamma in heaven and then it being condensed and taught to his disciples.
In every instance I've read of him describing this, from what I recall, he even mentions that he is not of the opinion, and then continues with what he thinks is the more probable origin of the Abhidhamma—that these works were likely detailed frameworks formulated by monks before and shortly after the Buddha's passing away, based on the Suttas and other teachings of the Buddha.
Re: Abhidhamma historical origins
DhsA 29:
"Ābhidhammika-bhikkhūyeva kira Dhammakathikā nāma,
avasesā Dhammakathaṃ kathentāpi na Dhammakathikā."
"Only those bhikkhus who understand
The Abhidhammå are the true preachers
of the Dhammå; the rest (other bhikkhus)
even though they talk about the Dhammå,
cannot be called a preacher of Dhammå."
Like a Vedic brahmana can be called a brahmana.
This is true, but The Buddhå spoke of the Arahant
as a brahmana (supreme).
Teaching the Suttås may be called
the preacher of the Dhammå, this is true,
But the true preacher of Dhammå,
is the bhikkhu who understands Abhidhammå!!
* pict of Abhidhammatthasanggahå Vol. 1
(Indonesian translation). Translate by:
Ashin Khemindattherå
"Ābhidhammika-bhikkhūyeva kira Dhammakathikā nāma,
avasesā Dhammakathaṃ kathentāpi na Dhammakathikā."
"Only those bhikkhus who understand
The Abhidhammå are the true preachers
of the Dhammå; the rest (other bhikkhus)
even though they talk about the Dhammå,
cannot be called a preacher of Dhammå."
Like a Vedic brahmana can be called a brahmana.
This is true, but The Buddhå spoke of the Arahant
as a brahmana (supreme).
Teaching the Suttås may be called
the preacher of the Dhammå, this is true,
But the true preacher of Dhammå,
is the bhikkhu who understands Abhidhammå!!
* pict of Abhidhammatthasanggahå Vol. 1
(Indonesian translation). Translate by:
Ashin Khemindattherå
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama
Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
Re: Abhidhamma historical origins
So the Buddha was not a true teacher.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
Re: Abhidhamma historical origins
Who was the first to teach Abhidhammå?
Answer: Tathāgatå
Who understands 1.000% the most about Abhidhammå?
Answer: Tathāgatå
Who doubts Abhidhammå?
Answer: those who don't understand
the Abhidhammå or haven't read it (only heard)
Just read Abhidhammatthasanggahå
(Just volume 1, u will understand what is
Abhidhammå).
Dhammå is ehipassikå!
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama
Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
Re: Abhidhamma historical origins
The above sounds like false speech.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
Re: Abhidhamma historical origins
Please write factual posts. I have read Abhidhamma. It openly contradicts sutta. Please do not continually post unfactual unproven speech to me. I am a Buddhist. I detest dishonesty. Thank you
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
Re: Abhidhamma historical origins
Didn't you accuse me of being another user a few days ago? Lead by example, not by words.
There is only one battle that could be won, and that is the battle against the 3 poisons. Any other battle is a guaranteed loss because you're going to die either way.
Re: Abhidhamma historical origins
Just read: The Great Chronicle of Buddhas
About "Yamaka-pāṭihāriyå".
… Minggu keempat setelah Pencerahan,
Buddhå Gotamå merenungkan Abhidhammå
di dalam Rumah Permata (ratanāgharå).
Dimulai dari: (1) Dhammasaṅgaṇī,
(2) Vibhaṅgå, (3) Dhāthu Kathā, (4) Puggala Paňňatti,
(5) Kathāvatthu, (6) Yamakå; ketika Sang Buddhå
memusatkan pikiran-Nya pada kitab (7) Paṭṭhānå,
cahaya sebesar gunung bersinar dari
bagian depan tubuh-Nya, memancar
hingga ke segala arah nan luas di alam semesta.
Dari telapak kaki-Nya memancar cahaya
berwarna koral setelah menembus
daratan, air, dan udara; dan bola cahaya biru
memancar satu demi satu dari kepala-Nya,
mencapai di angkasa tertinggi.
Pada waktu itu tidak terhitung banyaknya
makhluk di alam semesta yang (terlampau)
banyaknya memancarkan cahaya keemasan
seolah mereka mampu bersinar cemerlang
karena cahaya dari Buddhå Gotamå
menyinari tubuh mereka.
(Cahayanya masih ada hingga hari ini dalam
bentuk rantai zat-zat yang bersuhu [utuja-rūpå]).
THATSSSS SO AMAZINGGGGGG
Tathāgatå is the best!!!
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama
Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
Re: Abhidhamma historical origins
The doubters will always doubt. It is a waste of time for debating.
Theravada (or Vibhajjavada) accept Pali Tipitaka, that includes Vinaya Pitaka, Sutta Pitaka, and Abhidhamma Pitaka.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theravada
Those who rejected Abhidhamma Pitaka are simply not Theravadin. They are belong to one of the 18 schismatic schools called Sautrāntika.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sautr%C4%81ntika
Knowing this, there is no point for Theravadin to debate with the Sautrāntika sect.
Theravada (or Vibhajjavada) accept Pali Tipitaka, that includes Vinaya Pitaka, Sutta Pitaka, and Abhidhamma Pitaka.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theravada
Those who rejected Abhidhamma Pitaka are simply not Theravadin. They are belong to one of the 18 schismatic schools called Sautrāntika.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sautr%C4%81ntika
Knowing this, there is no point for Theravadin to debate with the Sautrāntika sect.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.
https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.
https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
Re: Abhidhamma historical origins
I thought he is from Early Buddhism (maybe).Ontheway wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:36 pm The doubters will always doubt. It is a waste of time for debating.
Theravada (or Vibhajjavada) accept Pali Tipitaka, that includes Vinaya Pitaka, Sutta Pitaka, and Abhidhamma Pitaka.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theravada
Those who rejected Abhidhamma Pitaka are simply not Theravadin. They are belong to one of the 18 schismatic schools called Sautrāntika.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sautr%C4%81ntika
Knowing this, there is no point for Theravadin to debate with the Sautrāntika sect.
I dunt know how "early" they r.
Theravādin just follow the original one,
Early, newly, trendy, say:
"No (for Theravādin just Theravādin)."
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama
Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."