Was the Buddha a blue-eyed light skinned Aryan?

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Aldebaran
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Was the Buddha a blue-eyed light skinned Aryan?

Post by Aldebaran »

I assume he would have been as I've seen Indians which are virtually indistinguishable from Europeans but not as many nowadays it has to be said.
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Re: Was the Buddha a blue-eyed light skinned Aryan?

Post by cappuccino »

Buddha would not identify with his eyes or skin
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Re: Was the Buddha a blue-eyed light skinned Aryan?

Post by sphairos »

He was born right on the border of India (more Caucasian looking people) and Nepal (more Asian looking people). Likely he was of a mixed race. Some Pāli sources call him black-skinned (kaṇha). No sources as far as I know identify him as white Caucasian with blue eyes.
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Re: Was the Buddha a blue-eyed light skinned Aryan?

Post by TRobinson465 »

I believe the texts do describe him as having sapphire eyes or sometihng like that. According to my Nepalese friend there are people in the Nepal/ northern indian area that have blue eyes, light skin (kinda like some middle eastern people like jews and lebonese people) and black hair. So i dont think this is out of the realm of possibility since people who look like that do exist in that geographical area.
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Re: Was the Buddha a blue-eyed light skinned Aryan?

Post by DNS »

According to the 32 Marks of a great man, his skin color was gold. The gold color is similar to brown or light-brown.

Number 11 at:
https://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?ti ... _great_man

So definitely not white, nor black, probably like the rest of us, a mix of races and ethnicities from that area.
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Re: Was the Buddha a blue-eyed light skinned Aryan?

Post by sphairos »

TRobinson465 wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:58 pm I believe the texts do describe him as having sapphire eyes or sometihng like that. According to my Nepalese friend there are people in the Nepal/ northern indian area that have blue eyes, light skin (kinda like some middle eastern people like jews and lebonese people) and black hair. So i dont think this is out of the realm of possibility since people who look like that do exist in that geographical area.
It is not our of the realm of possibility , but HIGHLY UNLIKELY, just browse through the photos of the Nepalese.
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Re: Was the Buddha a blue-eyed light skinned Aryan?

Post by Sam Vara »

sphairos wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 9:35 pm
TRobinson465 wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:58 pm I believe the texts do describe him as having sapphire eyes or sometihng like that. According to my Nepalese friend there are people in the Nepal/ northern indian area that have blue eyes, light skin (kinda like some middle eastern people like jews and lebonese people) and black hair. So i dont think this is out of the realm of possibility since people who look like that do exist in that geographical area.
It is not our of the realm of possibility , but HIGHLY UNLIKELY, just browse through the photos of the Nepalese.
Indeed. There are lots of Nepalese and people of Nepalese descent living in a fairly high concentration a few miles from me - Gurkhas and their descendants. They may now be different from the people who lived in Nepal 2500 years ago, but I doubt it. And I've never seen one with blue eyes or so light a skin that they could pass for a paleface like me.
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Re: Was the Buddha a blue-eyed light skinned Aryan?

Post by SDC »

Aldebaran wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:29 pm I assume he would have been as I've seen Indians which are virtually indistinguishable from Europeans but not as many nowadays it has to be said.
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Re: Was the Buddha a blue-eyed light skinned Aryan?

Post by Kusala »

Aldebaran wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:29 pm I assume he would have been as I've seen Indians which are virtually indistinguishable from Europeans but not as many nowadays it has to be said.
A picture(s) is worth more than a thousand words. According to geneticists the warrior/aristocratic caste(Kshatriya) and priestly caste(Brahmin) have a certain of amount of European/Caucasian admixture...India today is highly mixed, but during the Buddha's time, the ruling class rarely mixed outside their race. We see it in the origin story of the Sakyan clan. The Sakyans were very prideful and refused to mixed outside of their race...which, unfortunately, led to the destruction of their kingdom...

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Re: Was the Buddha a blue-eyed light skinned Aryan?

Post by dharmacorps »

He was not a white supremacists wet dream, no. He was a brown/gold skinned man with black hair. Even less appealing to the would-be-Schicklgrubers, he rejected racism categorically, specifically, and often.
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Re: Was the Buddha a blue-eyed light skinned Aryan?

Post by Kusala »

I forgot to link the article to the genetic study in my previous post.... Here it is https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/ASI ... 928833.php

"...The data imply, then, "that there was a group of males with European affinities who were largely responsible for this invasion 3,000 or 4,000 years ago," said geneticist Lynn Jorde of the University of Utah. "

"when we look at the Y chromosome DNA, we see a very different pattern. The lower castes are most similar to Asians, and the upper castes are more European than Asian."

Further, "when we look at the different components within the upper caste, the group with the greatest European similarity of all is the warrior class, the Kshatriya, who are still at the top of the Hindu castes, with the Brahmins," Jorde said.

"But the Brahmins, in terms of their Y chromosomes, are a little bit more Asian."


This might explain why the Buddha said what he said...I don't remember the exact sutra, but I recall the Buddha telling a Brahmin that when it comes to lineage, the Kshatriya caste were superior to that of the Brahmin...
"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "
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Re: Was the Buddha a blue-eyed light skinned Aryan?

Post by Gwi »

DN 30--Lakkhaṇa suttank

The Buddhå explained what actions
Caused Bhagavā to have blue eyes,
Forty teeth, etc.


The Buddhå was born spontaneously.
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
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Re: Was the Buddha a blue-eyed light skinned Aryan?

Post by TRobinson465 »

Kusala wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 12:49 am
Aldebaran wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:29 pm I assume he would have been as I've seen Indians which are virtually indistinguishable from Europeans but not as many nowadays it has to be said.
A picture(s) is worth more than a thousand words. According to geneticists the warrior/aristocratic caste(Kshatriya) and priestly caste(Brahmin) have a certain of amount of European/Caucasian admixture...India today is highly mixed, but during the Buddha's time, the ruling class rarely mixed outside their race. We see it in the origin story of the Sakyan clan. The Sakyans were very prideful and refused to mixed outside of their race...which, unfortunately, led to the destruction of their kingdom...

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As blue eyes is a recessive trait i think the fact that they wouldnt mix actually increases the chance one of them would have blue eyes. There are literally cases of people in africa with blonde hair, so i honestly dont think its that unlikely. That or maybe his eye color was different from the standard brown and so people called it blue. There are plenty of people in Afghanistan with pale blue or green eyes. and that part of the world isnt that far from where the Lord Buddha lived. We should get it out of our heads that white people are the only people capable of not having black hair and brown eyes.

As the Lord Buddha was exceptional its totally possible he was one of these relatively rare cases of having such an eye color in that part of the world. Being light skinned is not that unusual in that part of the world, my Nepalese friend is light skinned, but black haired and brown eyed. One of my close friends is also quite light skinned while her brother is somewhat dark skinned. Genetics is complicated.

It is also possible the texts are simply exaggerating (for instance the Lord Buddha having "golden skin" probably does not mean literally gold in color) or perhaps we are mistranslating the wording due to millenias of knowledge decay (think the meaning of "gay" back in the 50s and the meaning now). Maha Moggallana was said to have blue skin, which actually is a possible skin real life skin condition, but people generally agree it probably meant "dark" skin.
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Re: Was the Buddha a blue-eyed light skinned Aryan?

Post by TRobinson465 »

Kusala wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:11 am I forgot to link the article to the genetic study in my previous post.... Here it is https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/ASI ... 928833.php

"...The data imply, then, "that there was a group of males with European affinities who were largely responsible for this invasion 3,000 or 4,000 years ago," said geneticist Lynn Jorde of the University of Utah. "

"when we look at the Y chromosome DNA, we see a very different pattern. The lower castes are most similar to Asians, and the upper castes are more European than Asian."

Further, "when we look at the different components within the upper caste, the group with the greatest European similarity of all is the warrior class, the Kshatriya, who are still at the top of the Hindu castes, with the Brahmins," Jorde said.

"But the Brahmins, in terms of their Y chromosomes, are a little bit more Asian."


This might explain why the Buddha said what he said...I don't remember the exact sutra, but I recall the Buddha telling a Brahmin that when it comes to lineage, the Kshatriya caste were superior to that of the Brahmin...
I remember him saying that in a sutta as well. I also cant remember the exact sutta but im pretty sure it had no white supremacist lessons in there.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
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